Microphone recommendations

[Jim Bress]

I'm looking to buy a microphone for testing/recording mode signatures and to archive audio files of instruments.  

 

This thread was very helpful on the topic. http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/331017-spectrum-analisis-again/?hl=microphone. However, looking at the specifications of mics on Amazon I really have no clue what I'm looking at.  

 

Can any of you techno gurus give me some advise on what I want, don't want, or is just throwing money away for features in a microphone for a PC?  Or just say "Stop burning time scratching your head and buy this.  Now get back to work".  

 

Thanks,

Jim 

[Michael_Molnar]

I use a Behringer ECM 8000 with an E-MU TRACKER EM8730 pre-amp. Curtin may have suggested this. Maybe.

[Carl Stross]

I'm looking to buy a microphone for testing/recording mode signatures and to archive audio files of instruments.  

 

This thread was very helpful on the topic. http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/331017-spectrum-analisis-again/?hl=microphone. However, looking at the specifications of mics on Amazon I really have no clue what I'm looking at.  

 

Can any of you techno gurus give me some advise on what I want, don't want, or is just throwing money away for features in a microphone for a PC?  Or just say "Stop burning time scratching your head and buy this.  Now get back to work".

 

Thanks,

Jim 

 

For tests / measurements, Mike's suggestion ( ECM 8000 ) is very good and you can get a calibration kit, too. It's an electret and that means it might ( will.... ) lose charge and degrade over time and it WILL lose charge and degrade if you drop it sharply. But they are all electrets anyway. Then you need some USB or Firewire sound card with preamps and phantom power (?). 

 

For recording music from your violins, I wouldn't know. Maybe our resident sound engineer Carlo Bartolini would give us some pointers.

[Michael_Molnar]

For tests / measurements, Mike's suggestion ( ECM 8000 ) is very good and you can get a calibration kit, too. It's an electret and that means it might ( will.... ) lose charge and degrade over time and it WILL lose charge and degrade if you drop it sharply. But they are all electrets anyway. Then you need some USB or Firewire sound card with preamps and phantom power (?). 

 

For recording music from your violins, I wouldn't know. Maybe our resident sound engineer Carlo Bartolini would give us some pointers.

The E-MU TRACKER is the power supply with a USB connection.

[DGV]

Look up Gefell measurement mics. They are very highly regarded (and also very expensive).

 

But if you also want to record music, you cannot go wrong with a pair of Schoeps.

 

And if you are poor like I am, get the Shure KSM 137/141.

[Don Noon]

I'm still using the cheapo computer mic that I started with.  If I switched, the comparisons with previous data would not be valid any more.  What I said in the referenced thread still holds for me:

 

If you're recording violin stuff to listen to it, and want it to sound right, then you need a really good microphone.  If you're doing spectral analysis for your own education, using uncalibrated, hand-held methods, then there are lots of big variables that overpower whatever coloration there might be in the mike.  For my spectral response measurements, I just use a freebie computer mike that someone gave me 15 years ago.  The important thing is to keep everything the same as much as possible, so your own measurements can be compared.  They won't be comparable very well with anyone else's anyway.

 

I do have a couple of good microphones... but I don't use them.

[Bill Yacey]

AKG C451B or C460.

[Michael_Molnar]

I do have a couple of good microphones... but I don't use them.

Maybe you should.

 

 

(Just joking, Don.) 

[palousian]

I have two recommendations.  For honest, transparent clarity I recommend the Audio-Technica AT 4050 large-diaphragm condensor.  $700 and as clean as anything.  But if I'm recording violin to listen to, I use a ribbon microphone.  My choice is a Cascade Microphones "Fathead II," about $300.  I might use both, depending on the context.  I'm not making recordings for analysis; I'm just making records.  If you use a ribbon mic, you'll need a preamp with some power.  I use an Avalon 737 tube preamp, but that's an expensive choice. 

[ctanzio]

Large diaphragm condensor mics offer a lot of bang for the buck. Get one with a USB interface so you can plug it easily into your computer. Freeware sound capture and spectral analysis programs, like Audacity, work well with them.

 

A decent one starts at around $70US and will do the job for mode capture as well as performance recording. You can capture the sound in a file and catalog it on your computer in one easy step.

[Bill Yacey]

Large diaphragm condensers don't capture transients as well as a small diaphragm. Pretty much all reference microphones of any accuracy are small diaphragm.

[Stephen Faulk]

 Shure 57.....

 

(just kidding...slinks away snickering) 

[DGV]

 Shure 57.....

 

(just kidding...slinks away snickering) 

 

Beta or SM?

[Jim Bress]

As always, thanks everyone for your input.  It has been helpful, but I'm not out of the woods yet.  I almost got away without thinking too much by following Michael's advise except I couldn't find the E-MU TRACKER EM8730 pre-amp for sale any where.  In an effort to figure out an alternative interface I had to learn more about mics and interfaces, which is good thing because I prefer to spend money wisely.   

 

I learned a lot from this site.  http://ehomerecordingstudio.com/recording-studio-equipment-list/

 

So my current line up looks like

microphone: BEHRINGER MEASUREMENT CONDENSER MICROPHONE ECM8000 ($60) or AKG PERCEPTION 170 Professional Instrumental Microphone ($79)

USB interface: Focusrite Scarlett Solo Compact USB Audio Interface ($100)

 

Thoughts?

 

-Jim

[ctanzio]

Although transients are an important part of violin timbre, I am not convinced one needs extra performance to capture them. Plucked instruments, like acoustic guitar, or crashed instruments like drum cymbals would need the extra performance.

 

Here is a microphone buying guide that does a good job explaining the pros and cons of various microphones and their applications. I've purchased a bunch of stuff from Sweetwater over the years and have never been disappointed.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/studio-microphone-buying-guide/#diaphragm_size 

[Jim Bress]

 Nice article, thanks for the link.  Sweetwater prices are pretty good as well.

[Carl Stross]

 

 

So my current line up looks like

microphone: BEHRINGER MEASUREMENT CONDENSER MICROPHONE ECM8000 ($60) or AKG PERCEPTION 170 Professional Instrumental Microphone ($79)

USB interface: Focusrite Scarlett Solo Compact USB Audio Interface ($100)

 

Thoughts?

 

-Jim

 

Focusrite has good preamps usually. You might want to look for an interface doing 24 bit at 92Khz. It does make a smidgen of a difference. I don't know if your Focusrite does that.

 

If you wish to record credible sound clips then this is about the lowest you could go :

 

http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Formely-Perception-Diaphragm-Condenser/dp/B00FZZPYZQ/ref=sr_1_12?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1437399682&sr=1-12&keywords=Akg+microphone

 

The 414 would be a better option but it's $1k.

[Jim Bress]

Focusrite has good preamps usually. You might want to look for an interface doing 24 bit at 92Khz. It does make a smidgen of a difference. I don't know if your Focusrite does that.

 

If you wish to record credible sound clips then this is about the lowest you could go :

 

http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Formely-Perception-Diaphragm-Condenser/dp/B00FZZPYZQ/ref=sr_1_12?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1437399682&sr=1-12&keywords=Akg+microphone

 

The 414 would be a better option but it's $1k.

Not mine yet!  I just looked it up and the focusrite does have 24 bit at 92 Khz, so I quess that's good?

 

The buying guides I've read seem to indicate small diaphram condenser mics are more apropriate for my use.  I have no first hand experience with any of this.  The focusrite interface comes with Ableton Live Lite.  My son uses the full ableton suite so I'll have some tech support for the software.

[ctanzio]

Are you trying to capture the signature modes by spectral analysis of plate or bridge tapping?

[Jim Bress]

Are you trying to capture the signature modes by spectral analysis of plate or bridge tapping?

Hi Ctanzio,

Yes, in addition I want to capture audio and play back to use for A/B comparisons.  This is all for analysis and self education.  No one wants to hear my playing for entertainment.   Changes in the spectral analysis won't mean much to me if I can't also hear the difference.  I also have no faith in my acoustic memory.  Basically, being able to accurately record signature modes and played scales seems like a good idea to help my making improve over time.  Does this make sense, or would a basic PC mic as, Don says, be sufficient?

 

Thanks,

Jim 

[joerobson]

CARLO WHERE ARE YOU?

[ctanzio]

I was asking because I was wondering if the initial transient of a tap-test sound bite would substantially affect the response spectrum of the lower frequencies where the "signature" modes are defined.

 

I have a bunch of tap test captures. I'll pull them up and create response spectrums with the initial transient edited out and compare to the unedited audio. That would at least tell you if an expensive, small diaphragm mic is a good idea. Don Noon has posted a bunch of spectrums. If he did those using a cheap PC mic and feels confident in the results, I would just heed his advice. 

 

For A/B performance sound comparisons, I found a modestly priced large-diaphragm condenser mic audibly out performs the cheap mics. Still, it might make an interesting test to compare the two.

 

Obviously, if you can afford a professional recording grade mic, then all the above is rendered moot. Just buy it. 

[feelingfaceform]

If you are into DIY: check this site:

http://wiki.diyrecordingequipment.comhttp://www.diyrecordingequipment.com

microphoneparts.com have easy mods with great performance

[Jim Bress]

Thanks Joe! 

 

Ctanzio, I really appreciate you running these tests. I look forward to your result.

 

FFF, I do a lot of DIY, but I think I'll pass here.

 

-Jim

[BigFryMan]

Hi Jim,

If this is just for analysis, not for listening enjoyment, the Behringer test mic will be fine. I own one amongst many other mics and it's perfectly fine for that application. Don't let anyone talk you into buying anything more expensive. It I well accurate enough for that type of test. It won't necessarily sound good, but generally speaking reference mics don't. They are clinical and show up everything that is wrong, that is their job. I use the Behringer all the time for phase/time alignment, room impulse testing and general analysis.

I cannot stress to you enough how much your room/space affects this type of recording so make sure you keep everything consistent in your testing rig. Same mic in precisely the same position otherwise your comparisons will mean little.