Menachem Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 My son has finished preschool this year, and starting next term he will be home schooled. I am planning on teaching him the violin, but I am in need on some advice for method books. I seem to remember starting out on the green String Builders book by Applebaum ages ago when I was in elementary school. My personal experience was public school orchestra from about the 4th grade through high school with some community orchestra experience. In high school I switched from violin to viola. I've heard a little about All for String and Essential Elements, but no experience with them. What are your take on these methods and what you recommend in place of/complementary to these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I love the Applebaum series. I still think they're the best. I also love the Suzuki pieces (versus the strict 'method'). I think the two sources would work well in tandem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Stross Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 My son has finished preschool this year, and starting next term he will be home schooled. I am planning on teaching him the violin, but I am in need on some advice for method books. Will this be with a view towards a possible professional career ? How "musical" is your son ? Good ear ? So so ? Sometimes a short detour via piano is exceptionally beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menachem Posted June 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Will this be with a view towards a possible professional career ? How "musical" is your son ? Good ear ? So so ? Sometimes a short detour via piano is exceptionally beneficial. As a professional career, I don't know. He is a sponge. He takes everything in. He's into nature/biology/bugs/pets, building with legos and erector sets, putting puzzles together, singing and dancing etc. etc. Musically, he has potential. He can pick up tunes by humming or make up songs with nonsensical words. He's good with keeping relative pitch, I don't know about absolute pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Fine Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I like Suzuki. Mark O'Connor's stuff is nice too. Success From an Early Age 1. Setup-Posture 2. Intonation-Sound production 3. Listening-Playing -------------- As you are teaching your child, make sure that you insist on good posture (and make sure you know what good posture looks like). Make sure that you insist on accurate intonation and an even, strong tone (consistent contact point and bow speed). Make sure that your child plays every day and listens to violin music every day. I attribute much of my success to the fact that my first teacher was an excellent pianist who accompanied me on piano when she wasn't demonstrating on the violin. Playing with a good pianist develops intonation, accurate subdivision, and an understanding of counterpoint. Far far more important than what material you choose to teach is the teacher you choose to teach it. If that teacher is you, I suggest that you take a few lessons yourself on setup-posture from someone excellent and thorough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Stross Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 As a professional career, I don't know. He is a sponge. He takes everything in. He's into nature/biology/bugs/pets, building with legos and erector sets, putting puzzles together, singing and dancing etc. etc. Musically, he has potential. He can pick up tunes by humming or make up songs with nonsensical words. He's good with keeping relative pitch, I don't know about absolute pitch. That sounds promising. "Absolute pitch" is not needed or even wanted for violin. Good for Conductors, pianists and that's about it. I know little about the US violin pedagogy but in Europe, the best pedagogues seem to have reached a certain consensus and have returned to basics and the older ways. Start on piano for at least 6 months and then violin and if you might contemplate a professional career, solfege started immediately is a must because there is a very limited time window for making it automatic. Second nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 That brings up a favorite subject of mine... When we provide a child with music education are we obligated to suppose that each child may want to become a professional? My daughter successfully completed her formal "piano education". We didn't go about it "properly"...she succeeded regardless. So did she actually "succeed", or not? And now? She still plays the piano for pleasure. Just one example of a music education...was it a success or a failure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Stross Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 That brings up a favorite subject of mine... When we provide a child with music education are we obligated to suppose that each child may want to become a professional? Not at all, I'd say. BUT, if we don't exclude a professional career then certain things need to be done early. Solfege is one of them. Then, there needs to be a certain sense of urgency about gathering technical skill. And a certain seriousness. In the end , the child needs to pass the staying power test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjham Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Mimi Zweig String Pedagogy is the most helpful I have found for beginning my children, especially if you're teaching him yourself. It was recommend to me by a university string teacher when we were having problems with a sore wrist in one of our children. http://www.stringpedagogy.com I have also encouraged my children's teachers to watch the DVD. See also: http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=15431 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menachem Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Thank all of you for your suggestions so far. As for solfege, all I know from it is from Sound of Music. Rather sad I think. However, when I took flute lessons I got the Bona Rhythmical Articulation method book which I understand also can be used for solfege exercises. I need to find some time to go to a violin shop to look through the suggested methods. Unfortunately the instrument shops near me are geared for band instruments rather than orchestral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy jane Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I would STRONGLY recommend Shirley Givens' Adventures in Violinland sequence as a first method (--read the reviews on the Shar Music page). It is very child (4-6 years) friendly, comprehensive, entertaining, and logical. Perhaps the best quality, though, is the feeling of quick progress and advance that it gives to kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_s Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Thank all of you for your suggestions so far. As for solfege, all I know from it is from Sound of Music. Rather sad I think. However, when I took flute lessons I got the Bona Rhythmical Articulation method book which I understand also can be used for solfege exercises. I need to find some time to go to a violin shop to look through the suggested methods. Unfortunately the instrument shops near me are geared for band instruments rather than orchestral. It would be good to know where are you located. Starting with piano is incredibly important. Good luck and keep asking questions ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menachem Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 CM, thank you for your post. I'll need to sit down and digest it. Dan, I'm in the Treasure Coast of Florida. There are a few violin shops that I know of in Palm Beach. It will take a little planning to go there since it will be at least 30 miles one way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 ... Starting with piano is incredibly important. Now..them's fighting words! I also think piano...or keyboard...is very handy. I didn't fully 'see' theory concepts until I taught myself a bit of piano...but many kids learn to play well without piano...so you could debate that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menachem Posted June 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I worked at a music store when I was younger and had the luxury of taking lessons on flute and piano. The biggest challenge the piano instructor had was getting appropriate material for me to learn, but that doesn't bore me. What I got out of it is the ability to play menuettes and the first half of a 2 part invention by Bach. I noticed some of the method books on sharmusic.com also comes with a teachers book with piano accompaniment. Maybe I should start practicing on keyboard and let him in on it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menachem Posted June 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 So far I am leaning towards using the String Builder series by Applebaum. Should I the teachers book as well? I think one book for my son and the piano accompaniment should suffice. I'm also leaning towards starting out with solfege and keyboard with him as well. That way he'll have learned some musical concepts before picking up the violin. As I mentioned before, I don't have practical experience with solfege, so I am thinking starting out the the c major scale and teaching him the note values at first. (which seems to be the first 5 lessons in the Bona method) Can solfege be done in tandem with learning keyboard, or should I focus on one first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I don't see why you can't use the keyboard. When my youngest was little I also taught (or tried to) him music basics. I found the keyboard handy. It is visual. It has equal temperament...and you can match pitch as you learn what solfege is all about. Less of a mystery than starting it with the violin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menachem Posted June 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Just to clarify, I meant for my son to learn keyboard and solfege at the same time, or start with him learning solfege first then lead him into keyboard? I plan to use the keyboard as a tool to teach him solfege. As you said, it's easier to visualize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_s Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Just to clarify, I meant for my son to learn keyboard and solfege at the same time, or start with him learning solfege first then lead him into keyboard? I plan to use the keyboard as a tool to teach him solfege. As you said, it's easier to visualize. You can be a week or tow ahead with the theory against the instrument ( piano ) so that you do not have to solve theory problems on the instrument. Makes everything easier. Start with the vioin almost right away but stay a bit longer on open strings. I can not recomend a method because I am unfamiliar with all the new ones. I learned on the old Klenk method which is fast but it is for children 7 and up. Beriot is very good but it is even faster. The fast methods need good teacher to keep an eye on everything. For my child I would go for Beriot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Stross Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Just to clarify, I meant for my son to learn keyboard and solfege at the same time, or start with him learning solfege first then lead him into keyboard? I plan to use the keyboard as a tool to teach him solfege. As you said, it's easier to visualize. There are two books on violin playing you should obtain, by Flesh and Galamian. Can't remember the exact titles. Almost everything you'll need to keep an eye on things is there. There are also some very well written theory books. Remember that solfege comes in two flavors and it makes a great deal of difference which one you start with. I think you shouldn't have any trouble getting your little one started on the violin ( and piano ! ). In my opinion, the more "traditional" ( read old-fashioned ) you get him started, the easier will be for him later if he really enjoys violin and wants to make a career out of it. And ask questions here, however trivial. If the child starts RIGHT he can switch with ease later. He might like piano A LOT more or his hand might be too big / fingers too thick and around 12 y/o when/if this becomes obvious, cello can be a very nice alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menachem Posted June 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I have the Scale System by Carl Flesch for both violin and viola. I might do well having a whiskey (or scotch) before starting it next time. I looked up solfege and started reading about "movable do", and all the wonderful things you can do by changing the syllable. Then I decided no. I like the simplicity of the "fixed do" better. I just need to convert from the A, B, C notation to do, re me. Currently I'm working out lesson plans for the first few lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will L Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I've been waiting to see if anyone expressed concern with a parent teaching their own kid. No one seems to find this an automatic problem situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I think a 5 year old can handle the concept of Do re mi...and sing it. I think they can handle it in conjunction with "seeing" the notes on a keyboard and then grasping that those notes also exist - in a different form - on another instrument. No one is expecting this child to be a full fledged singer and instrumentalist at the end of his first year. If he has an aptitude or interest beyond learning what the basic building blocks of music are...then yes...it might be time to find a dedicated teacher. I taught my son the basics when he was 5...to supplement his school program. He has a mild learning disability that I felt wasn't being addressed. I am pretty sure I didn't mar him for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy jane Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Will, I have my own opinions of home schooling in general (I wouldn't)--but figure those choices are entirely up to the parent. Menachem asked about methods, and I will leave it at that. Connie, two things: 1) Moveable do is a key aspect of the Kodaly Method, created for the Hungarian public schools and similar in some respects to Suzuki. It remains a respected method, like Orff, and some music programs offer masters degrees in it, even here in the US. 2) I kinda loved your comment on whiskey and cigarettes and Flesch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will L Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Will, Menachem asked about methods, and I will leave it at that. A good point, which kept me from bringing up the subject a week ago; but I forgot today. And I don't intend to jump on any parent who feels he can pull it off. I just think if this thread continues, it would be worth discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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