Carl Stross Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 If you're just joining violin and viola plates, the Veritas Low angle jack plane is more than sufficient with its 15" sole. Bill, for 20 bucks more I'd take their #6 fore plane any day. There is MUCH more length in front of the blade and that helps a lot. Otherwise, I use this one a lot : http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=PREMIUM+PLANES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=12-137&SDesc=No%2E+62+Sweetheart%26%23153%3B+Low+Angle+Jack+Plane and it's excellent and much cheaper . They got this one right and the blade is excellent. Lasts forever. I found some of the Veritas blades too soft and hard to sharpen.
uncle duke Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 A fore plane is unnecessary Carl. A 14" is to small. A sharp and tuned #5 is the best. A #6 is perfect for removing spruce/cedar acoustic guitar soundboard material. For violin plates I used a modified Groz #5, a shooting board set up, spirit level with 80 grit glued to one edge and a pencil. Make a couple plane passes, then draw squiggley lines with pencil, plane some more until lines are evenly dismissed and finish with the sandpapered level to make grooves for the gluing surface. Obviously, bigger planes will be needed for cellos and such. What did I forget?
Carl Stross Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 A fore plane is unnecessary Carl. A 14" is to small. A sharp and tuned #5 is the best. A #6 is perfect for removing spruce/cedar acoustic guitar soundboard material. For violin plates I used a modified Groz #5, a shooting board set up, spirit level with 80 grit glued to one edge and a pencil. Make a couple plane passes, then draw squiggley lines with pencil, plane some more until lines are evenly dismissed and finish with the sandpapered level to make grooves for the gluing surface. Obviously, bigger planes will be needed for cellos and such. What did I forget? You use sandpaper to ....make groves for the gluing surface ?????????????????????????????????????????? THAT foreplane is 18" long and the blade is midway. It is better than my ( Veritas ) jointer by a long shot - much more versatile. There is other stuff is very good for besides joining plates. There are lots of construction details with that plane which make it superior to almost anything else. Only the LN #8 jointer beats it for certain specialized tasks, mainly due to superior weight. But I don't use a "shooting board" - it doesn't work right, which took me a while to find out.
Bill Yacey Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Bill, for 20 bucks more I'd take their #6 fore plane any day. There is MUCH more length in front of the blade and that helps a lot. I agree, the foreplane is better for joining, but their jack plane works well on a shooting board. When I purchased mine, due to it's size I actually thought I purchased a foreplane and didn't discover my oversight until after I had used it. I may still purchase the #6, but for now the jack plane works well enough. It looks like Lee Valley forced Stanley to pull up it's socks and put some quality design and materials into this plane.
Carl Stross Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 I agree, the foreplane is better for joining, but their jack plane works well on a shooting board. When I purchased mine, due to it's size I actually thought I purchased a foreplane and didn't discover my oversight until after I had used it. I may still purchase the #6, but for now the jack plane works well enough. It looks like Lee Valley forced Stanley to pull up it's socks and put some quality design and materials into this plane. What disappointed me is the Veritas jointer. It has a marked tendency to pull fine shavings in front of the front plate and that lifts up the plane. Incredibly irritating. Also, once knots happen around it, it's not quite heavy enough.
James M. Jones Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Carl ,do you mean the leading edge ? the very front? is it from machining? If so, have you tried dumbing down the square edge ? I enjoy my LN joiner and low angle block , a Veritas low angle block also , but I tend to not use it as much because the extra width makes holding it for extend periods a bit uncomfortable.
Carl Stross Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Carl ,do you mean the leading edge ? the very front? is it from machining? If so, have you tried dumbing down the square edge ? I enjoy my LN joiner and low angle block , a Veritas low angle block also , but I tend to not use it as much because the extra width makes holding it for extend periods a bit uncomfortable. 5 minutes - I'll take a pic. That's the plate one moves to close the slit. It accumulates shavings and lifts the plane up. The finer a cut one sets the plane to, the more shavings it gathers.
James M. Jones Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 That sucks...so much for "fixing" what's not broken! The Ln#7 has an adjustable frog, perhaps not as convenient to adjust ...
Carl Stross Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 That sucks...so much for "fixing" what's not broken! The Ln#7 has an adjustable frog, perhaps not as convenient to adjust ... Indeed it does. Big time. In it's defense, when joining plates, two strokes it's all what's needed. Perfection.
Bill Yacey Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 5 minutes - I'll take a pic. That's the plate one moves to close the slit. It accumulates shavings and lifts the plane up. The finer a cut one sets the plane to, the more shavings it gathers. Interesting, the jack plane front part of the sole extends all the way to the leading edge of the front, so there isn't ever a gap when adjusting the throat.
Carl Stross Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 Interesting, the jack plane front part of the sole extends all the way to the leading edge of the front, so there isn't ever a gap when adjusting the throat. ...and it's trouble free. In truth I used the big jointer a lot while making a bench top and it works well provided the cut is not set too fine. Brilliant for joining plates but by the time I got it, I had that worked out with basically any plane. Interestingly enough, I didn't find a single post on MN describing exactly how to use a plane to join plates. A furniture maker sorted that out for me. I would mention that I consistently found the Veritas blades more difficult to sharpen than Stanley Sweetheart blades which in my minor experience take a better edge and last longer.
Urban Luthier Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 I would mention that I consistently found the Veritas blades more difficult to sharpen than Stanley Sweetheart blades which in my minor experience take a better edge and last longer. Which Veritas blades do you find more difficult to sharpen? O1, A2, PM-v11? The A2 is a bit tougher to sharpen, but the veritas o1 blades i have all sharpen very easily
Urban Luthier Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 I have the DX60. I've had it for several years, and I still haven't put it to use yet. I didn't ask Santa. I just bought it myself. Now I'm afraid that Santa will catch me with it and ask what I did to deserve such a magnificent tool. I'm not sure that I will know what to say. i really really wanted to like this plane. I used one for a couple of weeks but just couldn't get on with it. The tolerances were the finest i've seen in a production tool but the angular design of the cap dug into the palm of my hand making it very uncomfortable to use. the veritas regular block plane mentioned elsewhere in this thread is a very fine plane
Carl Stross Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 Which Veritas blades do you find more difficult to sharpen? O1, A2, PM-v11? The A2 is a bit tougher to sharpen, but the veritas o1 blades i have all sharpen very easily All three. O1 and A2 seem somehow rubbery - hard to grind. They are soft and I am suspicious of the hardness figures because the brass screw holding them left a distinct print. The PMV is hard to bring to a fine edge. Bordering on the impossible. I think the O1 takes the finest edge ( just re-sharpened all of them ). But I only use oil stones and maybe with waterstones this problem doesn't manifest. I have none of these problems with the Stanley blades on the two Sweethearts and the two block planes. They grind easily ( Veritas are a pain on my Tormek - takes forever ) and they take a vicious edge. One observation I made is that the wire falls easily on the Stanley but tends to "stick" on the Veritas blades - hard to get rid of it when polishing the back.
Doug Cotterill Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 It seems tricky to get the Lie Nelson in oz, so I'm possibly leaning towards the Veritas, but they are expensive! I bought my Lie Nielsen stuff directly from their website. It takes a week, or less usually to receive my order in Sydney from Maine. It's also cheaper to buy from their website, than to buy locally, even after paying shipping costs. I love the block plane Dwight posted a link to.
Bill Yacey Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 One observation I made is that the wire falls easily on the Stanley but tends to "stick" on the Veritas blades - hard to get rid of it when polishing the back. The wire edge hanging on would seem to indicate a softer steel.
Carl Stross Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 The wire edge hanging on would seem to indicate a softer steel. That's what I thought, too. As I already mentioned, I am suspicious of the hardness figures given for these blades. More so when I look at bearing balls, races and gudgeon pins. One day I'll look for my hardness tester and get back to you with some figures.
David Burgess Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 On some new blades, I found that the heat treat was very soft at the cutting edge. It was fine once the blade had been ground back a ways to get rid of this soft portion.
Carl Stross Posted June 21, 2015 Report Posted June 21, 2015 On some new blades, I found that the heat treat was very soft at the cutting edge. It was fine once the blade had been ground back a ways to get rid of this soft portion. I never thought of that. I think you are right, they are laser cut and I think the damaged region was 1.5 times the thickness.
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