Stephen Faulk Posted June 17, 2015 Report Posted June 17, 2015 It doesn't take me two days to clean up and true an old block plane. More like 3 or 4 hours and I kind of enjoy it. But the point of buying the modern tuned plane is taken. But I still like the lighter bodies of the 220's and 102's better for certain jobs, so I'm glad to have them. The lighter planes give you more control for some jobs, it's hard to explain. What I need now is a reeaaaallllyy long jointer which I don't have at the moment. I would not spend my time truing out an old Record or Stanley jointer, that is touchy and time consuming, I will buy modern.
Jim Bress Posted June 17, 2015 Report Posted June 17, 2015 The low number is appealing... but realistically, how long would it take to clean it up, flatten the sole, and do all the other things necessary (as David listed) to get everything really working perfectly? I'm sure I could spend a day on it easily, probably two. If I figure my time is worth minimum wage, I could just buy a L-N and move on. And then, I'd have a L-N plane which not only would have fit and finish far better than the Stanley, but I could sell it for about what I paid for it. Try getting that price for a reworked Stanley. In the sense of resale, the L-N is essentially free... you just need to put down a deposit for the time you're using it. I'm definately using that line with SWMBO!
Jeffrey Holmes Posted June 17, 2015 Report Posted June 17, 2015 Geez... You guys seem to be talking apples and oranges... and there isn't a "correct" answer here. Just varied points of view. I understand and agree with Stephen in that you learn a lot about tool setup, tuning and steel from putting the time in... and I'm glad I've done it. I also admit to liking the option of convenience some of the new tools offer. Anyone who has hand trued a metal jointing plane will probably agree. The OP has plenty of information now to weigh in his decision. BTW, Don. My vintage knuckle cap is worth way more than I paid for it presently. Actually, I think just the cap may be worth well more than I paid for it.
Craig Tucker Posted June 17, 2015 Report Posted June 17, 2015 That photo IS my 22" Bailey joint-er pane, and my smallest thumb plane, standing bravely against it...
DBurns Posted June 17, 2015 Report Posted June 17, 2015 Hi guys, I need to get a decent block plane for all the block plane-y things on a violin - thinning ribs, neck heel shaping, etc... What is everybody using and what are the best options out there for reasonable money? low or high angle? As it'll be my first decent plane, it will need to be a bit of an all rounder. Thanks in advance! As a 'all rounder' you will want a low angle plane and several blades. Each blade is ground at a different bevel angle to do different jobs. End grain requires a low angle blade around 25^ and wild wavy curly grain that tears up requires a blade ground at a higher angle, like 45^ or more. If you go to Lee Valley tools they have some good working well priced block planes and they offer various angle grinds for the irons. Veritas® Apron Plane Good little plane and nice size for shooting fingerboards. Veritas® Standard and Low-Angle Block Planes Good size for ribs and general work. Optional Grips for the Veritas® Low-Angle Block Plane So solid little planes at a solid price with expansion capabilities. Hope this helps. Also if you don't like sharpening then buying the PM-V11 blades will help reduce the time spent at the stones.
Addie Posted June 17, 2015 Report Posted June 17, 2015 If we're talking multiple blades, add in a toothed blade, or make your own with a Dremel tool.
David Burgess Posted June 17, 2015 Report Posted June 17, 2015 In the sense of resale, the L-N is essentially free... you just need to put down a deposit for the time you're using it. It's cool that the same thing can happen with upper-end fiddles. Or maybe go beyond free, to reap major profits. Wish I'd had a better sense of where the market would go when Strads were cheap. So here I sit in the rainy season, in Kyushu, seventy years later. Pooping in the woods. I hear ya! I'm a fairly big fan of the adage, "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without". I haven't gone easily or seamlessly into the "disposable culture", or into modern things possibly being better than old.
Bill Yacey Posted June 18, 2015 Report Posted June 18, 2015 If I had money to spend, why, I'd buy the newer, better, or more well made planes. But - I find that all of my old garage sale (etc.) planes, sharpened properly, work extremely well. For what we are called upon to do as lutheriers. Which is usually fairly light work for a plane. It's important to remember that even most of the older tools available now are probably considerably advanced compared to what Strad had available in his day.
Addie Posted June 18, 2015 Report Posted June 18, 2015 It's important to remember that even most of the older tools available now are probably considerably advanced compared to what Strad had available in his day. A lot of modern woodworkers think they are machinists.
Craig Tucker Posted June 18, 2015 Report Posted June 18, 2015 It's important to remember that even most of the older tools available now are probably considerably advanced compared to what Strad had available in his day. Most? Yes, I'll say. If I want some specialized wood - or any tool in the world - I just pop on the computer - and three days later it shows up at my door.
Jim Bress Posted June 18, 2015 Report Posted June 18, 2015 A lot of modern woodworkers think they are machinists. Especially the ones that used to be machinists.
JohnCockburn Posted June 18, 2015 Report Posted June 18, 2015 Has anybody tried the Silverline Block Plane No. 2? It looks like a low angle block plane. On ebay is almost a gift. It says "Manufactured from grey iron casting with all-brass fittings. For end grain work and fine finishing. Screw depth control, lateral control and cam-action locking lever cap. Adjustable mouth ." All too good to be true? Yes. Silver line planes are terrible. Don't waste your money. I also have the Quangsheng/Woodriver block Plane. I think mine is the higher angle. It sees very, very little use. It is very well made, no doubt about it. The blade is good and the machining is to a much higher standard than your new (or old) Stanley/Records. It's just that it's HEAVY! I'm afraid I've gone off the heavyweight idea of Plane use (virtually any Plane save for jointing). I much prefer using the lightweight wooden or the transitionals. My Stanley block plane sees more use than the Quangsheng, even though the Quangsheng is a better made Plane. If you do a lot of Planing (as I do) the weight and comfort becomes a factor. If it's much more in keeping with your average Violin maker then I doubt it's much of a factor at all. The Quangsheng should be in your vision, it may just need a few of the sharp edges taking off the casting. A few minutes work with wet/dry abrasive. Don't mind the weight of the LN (and clone) block planes, but I do find their bench planes unnecessarily heavy.
Addie Posted June 18, 2015 Report Posted June 18, 2015 Especially the ones that used to be machinists. I was thinking more of the post-yuppy era can't get out of bed without a high-end single-purpose jig type. The kind that wouldn't own a tool that didn't have a Rockwell pedigree and price tag that would make Bil Gates blush. You know, the $20K dream shop for making three or four custom fountain pens a year. Machined, of course!
Craig Tucker Posted June 18, 2015 Report Posted June 18, 2015 You know, the $20K dream shop for making three or four custom fountain pens a year. Machined, of course! Yeah Addie, so what's your point here? I can make, sometimes, in a good year - up to five (yes, count them...5!) custom machined fountain pens...
Addie Posted June 18, 2015 Report Posted June 18, 2015 Yeah Addie, so what's your point here? I can make, sometimes, in a good year - up to five (yes, count them...5!) custom machined fountain pens... Five. That's more than "three or four." Right? (Now I'm hoping nobody on MN needs a high end, single purpose jig to get out of bed in the morning. Or maybe I should have just stayed in bed today)
Addie Posted June 18, 2015 Report Posted June 18, 2015 I was thinking more of the post-yuppy era can't get out of bed without a high-end single-purpose jig type. The kind that wouldn't own a tool that didn't have a Rockwell pedigree and price tag that would make Bil Gates blush. You know, the $20K dream shop for making three or four custom fountain pens a year. Machined, of course! Never mind. And some of my best friends are machinists. No, really. Well, not any more. But... right. Never mind.
Don Noon Posted June 18, 2015 Report Posted June 18, 2015 As long as there's no pressure to be cost-efficient, I see nothing wrong with having a $20k dream shop, even if you make absolutely nothing with it. Some people collect cars, or violins; why not tools?
Conor Russell Posted June 18, 2015 Report Posted June 18, 2015 I'm no machinist, but a decent metal lathe is a joy to have in the workshop.
BigFryMan Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Posted June 19, 2015 Guys, Thanks for all the info, I just put an order in for the Veritas low angle block plane from lee valley with an A2 blade and extra toothed blade. Should turn up in a week or two so looking forward to tuning it up and seeing what it can do. Now next on the list is raising some funds to buy a jointing plane.
Stephen Faulk Posted June 19, 2015 Report Posted June 19, 2015 I could spend 40 K on a shop, $10,000.00 of which would be a custom made refrigerator with built in ice cream maker, automatic self tapping and pumping keg.
Craig Tucker Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Guys, Now next on the list is raising some funds to buy a jointing plane. A 22" jointing plane? Are you planning to make a shooting jig to "shoot" the boards on?
Bill Yacey Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Don't know why folk seem to dismiss the old Stanley/Record blades. I've had nothing but decent steel from them. The best is a Stanley Rule and level that came with the 102 that I bought for £5! The steel quality may be OK, but usually the blades are overly thin and prone to chatter. The offerings from Lie Nielsen and Veritas come equipped with good thick blades. What I dislike about the Record and Stanley mechanisms is when you loosen the cap iron, the blade is instantly flopping about because nothing is holding it in alignment.
Bill Yacey Posted June 20, 2015 Report Posted June 20, 2015 Now next on the list is raising some funds to buy a jointing plane. If you're just joining violin and viola plates, the Veritas Low angle jack plane is more than sufficient with its 15" sole.
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