Best first block plane

[uncle duke]

Carl, what kind of compound do you put on the leather?

[pold]

Has anybody tried the Silverline Block Plane No. 2? It looks like a low angle block plane. On ebay is almost a gift. It says "Manufactured from grey iron casting with all-brass fittings. For end grain work and fine finishing. Screw depth control, lateral control and cam-action locking lever cap. Adjustable mouth ." All too good to be true?

[uncle duke]

Has anybody tried the Silverline Block Plane No. 2? It looks like a low angle block plane. On ebay is almost a gift. It says "Manufactured from grey iron casting with all-brass fittings. For end grain work and fine finishing. Screw depth control, lateral control and cam-action locking lever cap. Adjustable mouth ." All too good to be true?

I'd prefer a bit more cap going towards the cutting edge, notice the Stanley to right of the Silverline. could make a difference.

[Stephen Faulk]

Flattening is the easy part. Much more time consuming are:

Getting the blade bed so it properly supports the blade so it won't move around or flex;

Getting the sides flat, and at right angles to the bottom (if it will be used with a shooting board);

Fitting the channels and support for the movable piece in front of the blade which adjusts the throat opening, so it doesn't flex, or change height when moved to different positions; same thing with the frog mounting when there's an adjustable frog.

 

I never purchased a Stanley, Bailey or Record that didn't need all these things. Little things like these can make the difference between a plane that's a dream to use, or a struggle.

 

 

Yup, and if had a student who needed to learn about these ideas, I would not tell them to buy an expensive modern block plane. I would say get a Stanley 220 and use it learn the craft of setting up the plane first and then use it. This way they won't be trying to learn to do adjustments on an expensive new plane, but on a cheaper more forgiving vehicle. 

 

Advising people to buy a modern plane without learning the know how to adjust planes in my opinion is a poor idea. All the plane nerdry stuff comes later and the know how of judging a flat sole, squaring the sole to the sides etc. should be learned not purchased ready made in the first plane. The steel in the old Stanley is forgiving enough to make truing it up a workable task. The student might buy a lemon for $35.00 - $40.00 bucks, but more likely they will get a plane body that has never been tuned and an opportunity to learn how to do without wrecking a $200.00 plane. 

 

I have expensive modern planes and know about the new blades and all that, but for a beginner this is all useless chin music until they see the sole of the plane, the mouth, the edges and put a square to the sides and sole. It's all confusing nerdy talk until the person learns those sight lines on a real plane and adjusts them. I think. New planes are accurate, need little adjustment, but it bothers me the craft and knowledge of tuning the plane goes out the window in favor of buying off the shelf. 

 

Just my opinion on buying the knowledge in modern goods vs. teaching the concepts to someone. 

 

 

__

 

Tension in the blades of saws...still good saws get judicious ping or two with a hammer, but knowing where and how is becoming a lost art. High quality Japanese pull saws get this treatment as well.  

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

My experience: I started out with the Veritas regular angle block plane.  I like the way it feels in the hand.  The weight is particularly helpful when you need to maintain balance.  The adjustable mouth made a believer out of me.  I have not noticed any issues with the machining, but I haven't had any experience with it that caused me to give it that detailed an examination.  I would highly recommend it as a first block plane.  The LN apron plane is good for smaller work, though it does not fit my hand as well as the Veritas full size.  I own the LN apron plane, but still recommend the Veritas for starters.  Final suggestion: If you have the chance thru friends or in stores, take the candidates for a spin, at least holding each in your hand and getting a sense of how easily you can grip them and of their heft.

 

There is a fellow, Patrick Leach, who sells a lot of older tools online -- http://www.supertool.com/ -- and sends out a monthly list that usually includes a number of older block planes, a copy of which is attached.  Seems like a knowledgable fellow and responds quickly to email inquiries.  You might see what he has along the lines of what folks here are recommending in terms of vintage planes.  Probably less of a crap shoot than eBay unless you know the eBay shipper.

Real tools at realistic prices_.pdf

[Lusitano]

I've asked Santa for one of the new Veritas "premium" redesigned block planes... Actually, I've asked for a whole set XD

 

Anyone tried them? They're absolutely gorgeous (Tool nerd alert!).

[MarkBouquet]

I have the DX60. I've had it for several years, and I still haven't put it to use yet. I didn't ask Santa. I just bought it myself. Now I'm afraid that Santa will catch me with it and ask what I did to deserve such a magnificent tool. I'm not sure that I will know what to say.

[BigFryMan]

Thanks for all the info guys! I've read through, but I'm going to take another read through tomorrow, this is invaluable.

It seems tricky to get the Lie Nelson in oz, so I'm possibly leaning towards the Veritas, but they are expensive! http://www.thewoodworks.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=17867&category_id=551&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=91&manufacturer_id=

 

Should I be leaning toward standard or low angle?

 

Also, does anyone here have experience with WoodRiver planes? They look good in theory and the price is reasonable - http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/151125/WoodRiver-Low-Angle-Block-Hand-Plane-with-Adjustable-Mouth.aspx

[JohnCockburn]

Thanks for all the info guys! I've read through, but I'm going to take another read through tomorrow, this is invaluable.

It seems tricky to get the Lie Nelson in oz, so I'm possibly leaning towards the Veritas, but they are expensive! http://www.thewoodworks.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=17867&category_id=551&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=91&manufacturer_id=

 

Should I be leaning toward standard or low angle?

 

Also, does anyone here have experience with WoodRiver planes? They look good in theory and the price is reasonable - http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/151125/WoodRiver-Low-Angle-Block-Hand-Plane-with-Adjustable-Mouth.aspx

I have one of the planes in the link below, as well as a standard angle Lie Nielsen (which is what it's copied from)

http://www.finetools.com.au/products/luban-low-angle-block-plane

The genuine article feels slightly nicer to use, but the chinese one actually has a better blade. I think these are probably made in the same factory as the woodriver planes.

I use the low angle plane most of the time because it feels more comfortable in my hand. You can always increase the cutting angle by putting a steeper bevel on the blade (maybe buy a spare blade for this).

[Michael.N.]

I also have the Quangsheng/Woodriver block Plane. I think mine is the higher angle. It sees very, very little use. It is very well made, no doubt about it. The blade is good and the machining is to a much higher standard than your new (or old) Stanley/Records.

It's just that it's HEAVY! I'm afraid I've gone off the heavyweight idea of Plane use (virtually any Plane save for jointing). I much prefer using the lightweight wooden or the transitionals. My Stanley block plane sees more use than the Quangsheng, even though the Quangsheng is a better made Plane.

If you do a lot of Planing (as I do) the weight and comfort becomes a factor. If it's much more in keeping with your average Violin maker then I doubt it's much of a factor at all. The Quangsheng should be in your vision, it may just need a few of the sharp edges taking off the casting. A few minutes work with wet/dry abrasive.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

 

 

Also, does anyone here have experience with WoodRiver planes? They look good in theory and the price is reasonable - http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/151125/WoodRiver-Low-Angle-Block-Hand-Plane-with-Adjustable-Mouth.aspx

 

Please read post #18.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

 

Yup, and if had a student who needed to learn about these ideas, I would not tell them to buy an expensive modern block plane. I would say get a Stanley 220 and use it learn the craft of setting up the plane first and then use it. This way they won't be trying to learn to do adjustments on an expensive new plane, but on a cheaper more forgiving vehicle. 

 

Advising people to buy a modern plane without learning the know how to adjust planes in my opinion is a poor idea. All the plane nerdry stuff comes later and the know how of judging a flat sole, squaring the sole to the sides etc. should be learned not purchased ready made in the first plane. The steel in the old Stanley is forgiving enough to make truing it up a workable task. The student might buy a lemon for $35.00 - $40.00 bucks, but more likely they will get a plane body that has never been tuned and an opportunity to learn how to do without wrecking a $200.00 plane. 

 

 

 

I have to say that I agree...  but considering what is offered out there these days, I also admit that this belief may be swinging toward slightly Victorian principals.    

[Berl Mendenhall]

I haven't read every post so this may have been covered already, if so sorry.  Why not put a little more money into a great quality plane that actually holds it's value.  Look up LN planes on ebay and see what a used one sells for.  If you buy a Wood River, that is exactly what you will have, a Chinese knock off.

[Michael.N.]

No Berl, he'll get a very decent Plane for the money. I know, I own one. . . as well as Stanley's, Records, Veritas.

What's more LN 'copied' Stanley, kind of a knock off in itself.

[Craig Tucker]

I have to say that I agree...  but considering what is offered out there these days, I also admit that this belief may be swinging toward slightly Victorian principals.  

 

 

If I had money to spend, why, I'd buy the newer, better, or more well made planes.

But - 

I find that all of my old garage sale (etc.) planes, sharpened properly, work extremely well.

For what we are called upon to do as lutheriers. Which is usually fairly light work for a plane.

[Stephen Faulk]

I have to say that I agree...  but considering what is offered out there these days, I also admit that this belief may be swinging toward slightly Victorian principals.  

  I was trained by Edwardians. Close enough! 

 

 If moderns are in order I think the line of Veritas planes are pretty good for your dollars. 

 

____________

 

BTW I have one of these a Stanley 103, ( mine is clean) if you run into one of these they are quite nice. 

 

I agree with Michael N. heavy planes feel impressive, but push one all afternoon....the older lighter plane bodies have advantages too.  Honestly I switch back and forth between Veritas, my old Stanley's and Japanese kanna.  Some of it has to do with task and some of it with mood. 

 

 

 

But I'll stick to what I said as an Edwardian, can't beat a tuned up Stanley 220. 

[David Burgess]

Yup, and if had a student who needed to learn about these ideas, I would not tell them to buy an expensive modern block plane. I would say get a Stanley 220 and use it learn the craft of setting up the plane first and then use it. This way they won't be trying to learn to do adjustments on an expensive new plane, but on a cheaper more forgiving vehicle. 

 

Advising people to buy a modern plane without learning the know how to adjust planes in my opinion is a poor idea. All the plane nerdry stuff comes later and the know how of judging a flat sole, squaring the sole to the sides etc. should be learned not purchased ready made in the first plane. The steel in the old Stanley is forgiving enough to make truing it up a workable task. The student might buy a lemon for $35.00 - $40.00 bucks, but more likely they will get a plane body that has never been tuned and an opportunity to learn how to do without wrecking a $200.00 plane. 

 

I have expensive modern planes and know about the new blades and all that, but for a beginner this is all useless chin music until they see the sole of the plane, the mouth, the edges and put a square to the sides and sole. It's all confusing nerdy talk until the person learns those sight lines on a real plane and adjusts them. I think. New planes are accurate, need little adjustment, but it bothers me the craft and knowledge of tuning the plane goes out the window in favor of buying off the shelf. 

 

It bothers me a little too. "Dang it, when I was a kid, we had to work on a plane for days to get it working half-decent. These young punks need to suffer like we did. Dang it, I'll bet most of 'em don't even know how to poop in the woods".

 

The idea with a new expensive plane would be that no tweaking would be needed, so practicing on an old cheap plane wouldn't be needed to avoid the risk of screwing up the expensive plane.

 

Depends on what wants to do though... make fiddles, or enjoy the possible tangents along the way. If one enjoys the tangents, might as well forge your own gouges too.

The clock is ticking, and everyone will face choices about how to prioritize their time.

[Craig Tucker]

 The clock is ticking, and everyone will face choices about how to prioritize their time.

 

Yes... and their dollars.

[Craig Tucker]

 

But I'll stick to what I said as an Edwardian, can't beat a tuned up Stanley 220. 

 

Nice plane...

[David Burgess]

Yes... and their dollars.

Depends on what one's time is worth. Sometimes it ends up being a lot cheaper to buy what you wanted in the first place.

[Craig Tucker]

 

But I'll stick to what I said as an Edwardian, can't beat a tuned up Stanley 220. 

 

 

Just for the hell of it - I looked on the internet, and an old Stanley 103 (like the one shown) was selling for $20...

[Craig Tucker]

Depends on what one's time is worth. Sometimes it ends up being a lot cheaper to buy what you wanted in the first place.

 

No argument here.

[Stephen Faulk]

It bothers me a little too. "Dang it, when I was a kid, we had to work on a plane for days to get it working half-decent. These young punks need to suffer like we did. Dang it, I'll bet most of 'em don't even know how to poop in the woods".

 

The idea with a new expensive plane would be that no tweaking would be needed, so practicing on an old cheap plane wouldn't be needed to avoid the risk of screwing up the expensive plane.

 

You're like my grandfather, he used to say stuff like that. He was a contractor and he was a carpenter during the Depression. 

 

His subcontractors would say, in the 1970s when I used to go to jobs with him as little, little kid: "Hey Gordon I remember the old days when loaf a bread was a dime!"  Then my grandfather would say: "Yeah and that Skil saw you're using was a hand saw, and it took a half day of sawing to buy the bread." 

 

He loved state of the art tools. In the1970's he built a bank, he walked around all the floors and talked to presidents of the bank. At the time he said he was making $100.00 dollars an hour on that job. I thought that was cool. So one one day to pull a joke on him, when he bought me coke in the bank cafe',  the bank president comes over to our booth and they chatted. Then I said "Papa, when do you go to work, do you always talk to men in suits all day?"  The bank president was named Mr. Swing, he had a good sense of humor,  and they both laughed, knowing I liked to time what I said. I was about five. Mr. Swing said: "Stephen that's what I'd like to know, when is he going to do some work!" 

 

My grandfather told that story for years, he had a dry sense of humor. And in his garage were the best up to date tools. Table saws, shapers, all manner of routers. And he also had his fathers tools, one of which was a perfect, but carefully used Stanley moulding plane kit. It was a large box with compartments containing individual moulding plane irons. It was lovely. He liked to build furniture after he dusted off the odd bank and dept store. He built two wonderful campers, and helped me with school projects. 

 

Most of all he knew the value of good tools and why modern tools were in many ways a better value than old tools and he taught this to me. He was also a pretty good archer and he taught me to shoot guns and bows. I shot pistols and road mini bikes before I was six. But I liked and still prefer archery over metal. 

 

He was very modern, knew his tools, would have loved the planes we have today, but he also said you know what? You never know when you might be in a "spot".

 

"Yes indeed" he said, "Carry some paper or learn your soft non poisonous leaves. Be prepared to poop in the woods." 

 

_______________

 

PS- added baggage- The sucker punch however was my grandmother gave all this tools to my uncle and his lackluster woodworking skills and God knows who he has allowed them to deteriorate. My grandfather out smarted her however and gave his cameras and a few special tools to my mom to give to me. My step father was a fine craftsman and he saved a few things for me. My uncles are real dumbos, the fantastic flamed maple stock 30.06 went to one of them, and probably was never cleaned again. 

 

The personal tragedy was that during WWII my grandfather was a photographer and set builder and my grandmother threw away the negatives for the work he was allowed to keep after the war. His group built a scale model of Tokyo that filled a sound stage as big as a football field. It had a motion picture camera on a rail system above it and them made a training film for bomber pilots to watch and learn not where to drop bombs. The monasteries and Emperors palace were off limits, but ...well Tokyo was flattened save for those areas. The real tragedy. 

 

So here I sit in the rainy season, in Kyushu, seventy years later. Pooping in the woods. 

[Don Noon]

Just for the hell of it - I looked on the internet, and an old Stanley 103 (like the one shown) was selling for $20...

 

The low number is appealing... but realistically, how long would it take to clean it up, flatten the sole, and do all the other things necessary (as David listed) to get everything really working perfectly?  I'm sure I could spend a day on it easily, probably two.  If I figure my time is worth minimum wage, I could just buy a L-N and move on.  And then, I'd have a L-N plane which not only would have fit and finish far better than the Stanley, but I could sell it for about what I paid for it.  Try getting that price for a reworked Stanley.

 

In the sense of resale, the L-N is essentially free... you just need to put down a deposit for the time you're using it.

[Craig Tucker]

  Try getting that price for a reworked Stanley.

 

The only thing that I try to get out of my reworked Stanley's (or Records) is their ability to do what I am aking them to do.

Which they do nicely.

There's no other point I'm making here, other than the fact that I do have only old, reworked planes.

My very old (Bailey) No.7 cost me - if I remember correctly, about $12 - $15...

And you're right - it took me - probably two days of really careful work, to get it planning correctly - but I love that plane.