Best first block plane

[BigFryMan]

Hi guys,

 

I need to get a decent block plane for all the block plane-y things on a violin - thinning ribs, neck heel shaping, etc... What is everybody using and what are the best options out there for reasonable money? low or high angle? As it'll be my first decent plane, it will need to be a bit of an all rounder. 

 

Thanks in advance!

[Smith]

.

[Michael.N.]

Get an old Stanley 102. You may as well, they are that cheap!

There must be dozens of old 60 1/2 and 9 1/2's on the auction site. You just have to pick a good one, which might require a bit of experience. A few weeks ago I picked up an old Record N0.4 for £20 including the postage, as a buy it now. It had the original iron, virtually full length. I could tell from the pictures that the iron was long - it was projecting high up in respect of the handle. There's usually little clues like that. Failing that ask for extra pics of the mouth area and the blade.

[Carl Stross]

This one :

 

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=47881&cat=1,41182

 

( low angle version ) works nicely for me. Blades are excellent steel and once sharpened stay sharp

for a long time. Bit pricey but I'm all thumbs and I don't like to have to fight the tool, too. The ability

to close the mouth to a hair helps a lot. A toothed plate, for thinning ribs is available, too. I have

spare blades at different angles up to almost scraping plane territory. That takes care of the low/high

angle issue. And bevel up planes are somehow easier to keep sharp than bevel downs.

 

Stanley has a 91/2 and a 601/2 which are very nice, fully adjustable but on the heavy side. 

[JohnCockburn]

if you're only going to have one block plane (at least for now) it would be good to get one with flat sides for use on a shooting board.

The Chinese Lie Nielsen clones are good value.

[Michael Doran]

Get a Stanley 9 1/2 standard angle with a Hock blade. Stay away from anything made after the 40's or 50's, or that comes in a color besides black. They regularly are available on eBay for $25-50.

Much as I love my Lie-Nielsen #7 Jointer, I can't reccomend their full size block plane. It's too heavy and narrow. Their smaller version of the Stanley 102 in bronze is good, but not as your only plane.

[Carl Stross]

Get a Stanley 9 1/2 standard angle with a Hock blade. 

 

 

Like this ?

 

http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=PLANES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=12-138&SDesc=No%2E+9-1%2F2+Sweetheart%26%23153%3B+Block+Plane

 

Could you post a pic of the "good one" ?

[JohnCockburn]

Get a Stanley 9 1/2 standard angle with a Hock blade. Stay away from anything made after the 40's or 50's, or that comes in a color besides black. 

'cept Records are consistently at least as good as Stanleys and they blue 

[MaestronetLurker]

I spent a few years as a setup guy doing thousands of bridges and fingerboards, so my perspective is partially colored by doing a dozen fingerboard dressings back to back in a day.  I did most of it with an old Miller Falls that I had adjusted and replaced the blade with a Hock blade.  I tried both A2 and High Carbon blades and found that the A2 holds an ok edge for longer, but doesn't keep the premium edge as long as High Carbon.  The High Carbon will take a better edge than A2, but the edge degrades more quickly overall than A2.  Both are very good blades, but I prefer the High Carbon.  Both my old Mills Falls and old Stanley had a tendency for the blade to drift no matter how I tried to get the blade to seat well it just kept slowly wandering.  I eventually got a couple Lee Valley block planes, which adjust very nicely, but I don't think the blade quality is as good as Hock or Lie Neilsen.  I had a trainee at the shop at one point, and he was initially working with a decent block plane with a Norris adjuster (don't remember the brand), and when I got him a small Lie Nielsen 102 he insisted the plane paid for itself in a month because fingerboard dressings were so much easier.  If I could go back 15 years I'd get the Lie Nielsen instead of the Lee Valley as my primary block plane just because of the better blade, but there are many good choices.  Now that I'm not doing so many dressings and bridges back to back the Lee Valley blade isn't as obvious.

 

Low angle is for endgrain, and high angle is for figured wood/reducing tearout.  Lots of people get older planes and upgrade the blades.  Having done that, and later bought a better plane, I say don't wast time with the old planes.  Get a top quality modern plane that is machine flattened and comes with the better quality blade to begin with.  Either Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen will work for most people.

[Brad Dorsey]

Get an old Stanley 102. You may as well, they are that cheap!...

 

I second this recommendation if money is a consideration.  I bought an old 102 at a flea market for $10 and used it as my main plane for 7 years.  At some point I upgraded it with a Hock blade, and later I replaced it with a Lie-Nielsen.

[Michael Doran]

Like this ?

 

http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=PLANES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=12-138&SDesc=No.+9-1%2F2+Sweetheart%26%23153%3B+Block+Plane

 

Could you post a pic of the "good one" ?

No, no, no, Carl. Stay very far away from the new Stanley stuff. Their quality started going down hill after 1950 or so and its abysmal now. The new sweetheart line they are making now is awful.

Here's a link to an auction for a nice old 9 1/2.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/121658820058?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE

Some older record planes can be good as well. I also have seen some very nice millers falls block planes, though essentially all of those are copies or versions of the Stanley design. Bottom line- get something old because it's better and it also happens to be not too expensive. The Stanley blades are not suitable though, tool steel has come a long way, my favorite is the A2 Cryo from Ron Hock.

M

[Berl Mendenhall]

Check the internet, there are all kinds of sites and youtube videos on reconditioning old Stanley's.  Also tips on what to look for when buying an old plane.  For a new maker who doesn't have a good block plane, I'd suggest buying a new LieNelison block plane.  You can get cheaper old Stanley's or what ever, but by the time you buy it, pay shipping, and spring for a new blade you will have more money in it than you thought.  Plus it will need to be reconditioned and they are not all the same.  Some of the later Stanley's are junk. 

 

A good block plane is a joy to use.  I use Stanley's simply because I've always had them and I know how to tune them to their best potential.   A new plane comes ready to use right out of the box.

 

If you buy an old Stanley get an old one with an adjuster like the one pictured.  It works better than the later ones and it will have a bigger bed for the iron, which is important.  Try to stay away from the knuckle joint type, not as good as the plane old screw down blade holder.

[Carl Stross]

No, no, no, Carl. Stay very far away from the new Stanley stuff. Their quality started going down hill after 1950 or so and its abysmal now. The new sweetheart line they are making now is awful.

Here's a link to an auction for a nice old 9 1/2.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/121658820058?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE

Some older record planes can be good as well. I also have seen some very nice millers falls block planes, though essentially all of those are copies or versions of the Stanley design. Bottom line- get something old because it's better and it also happens to be not too expensive. The Stanley blades are not suitable though, tool steel has come a long way, my favorite is the A2 Cryo from Ron Hock.

M

 

I do ( stay away from them ) - they're too heavy, to much inertia. Thank you for the ebay link, now it's clear what I should try to get.

 

From their Sweetheart range , I found this one to be very versatile :

 

http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=PREMIUM+PLANES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=12-137&SDesc=No%2E+62+Sweetheart%26%23153%3B+Low+Angle+Jack+Plane

 

...once one narrows the blade by 2mm or so. By accident I'm sure, this was the only plane I have ever bought that was actually dead straight. And I've got 'em all...  

[David Burgess]

I agree with the notion of spending the money up front to get something good. I've spent days filing, grinding and flattening a single old plane trying to get it optimized. When I started, we had no other choice. Now, there's stuff which is quite nice, machined accurately, and works quite well out of the box. All I needed to do with my new Lie Nielsen jointer was sharpen the blade (although the blade came already sharpened decently). It works better than my old Bailey that I put a lot of machining and hand work into.

 

Anyone know if the Veritas are machined accurately?

[Carl Stross]

Anyone know if the Veritas are machined accurately?

 

NONE of them are "engine block" flatness. And they "move", which is normal for cast iron. I ground my no 71/2 on a new grinder a year or so ago ( blade tight , etc ) and within a few weeks was out 1 thou. I scraped it the Swiss way and I just checked it : it's out by a shade over 1 thou. The only solution would be to heat treat it but not knowing exactly what's in them, it's going to be a shot in the dark as to how much ding resistance the material will be left with. 

 

I think something does happen when they're dead straight but I also think unless they're far out it doesn't really matter as long as they're flat right in front of the blade.

[Don Noon]

I too have spent some effort on old planes, getting them flat and true... but they still are sloppy when it comes to the parts fitting, and stuff slithers around annoyingly to the point where I don't use them.  Definitely not worth the time and effort.

 

What I do use:

Lie-Nielsen 102 low angle; great for fine detail, like planing the heel of the neck during neck setting.  Too small, and a non-adjustable mouth for much heavier work.

Stanley 9 1/2 for general light-duty work.  Still is a bit sloppy with the machine work, so I'd get a L-N or Veritas version if I was to do it over (and I still might get one anyway)

L-N low-angle jack plane for bigger things

[actonern]

I also like the small bench planes like the LN #1 or 2.  They have a precisely ground chip breaker that can be brought very close to the blade edge, making the planning of ribs possible without the use of toothed blades.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

My first was also a Record, and I still use it regularly... but I bought it over 30 years ago... so I don't know what the new ones are like.

 

I did get one of Woodcraft's Wood River low angles for carpentry work.  Heavy casting (there's pros and cons to that). Seems to work pretty well for what I ask of it, but I doubt I'll ever use it for instrument work.

 

Have an old Stanley I use a Hock blade in.  Turned it into a fingerboard plane.  Didn't seem to take as well to flat work as the Record... even after tuning.

 

My absolute favorite, go-to, please don't touch it, it's mine stay away block plane is a vintage lever cap...  but before you put the time into tuning an old plane, I'd suggest tuning a new one.

[MarkBouquet]

I have been frustrated by the tendency of the depth adjuster on Lie-Nielsen block planes to deflect the cutter laterally as I'm adjusting the the cutting depth, deflecting to the right when I'm advancing the blade, and left when backing off. The adjustment is also relatively crude compared the the Norris type adjusters on Veritas planes, which don't have that deflecting tendency and have a lateral adjustment integrated into the design too. The Veritas planes also have those two set screws on the sides of the plane, down close to the cutting edge, that prevent deflection of the the cutter under planing force. I'm always impressed by the design thought and creativity that Veritas planes have, and I think they're really a step up from most everything else.

[Michael.N.]

Don't know why folk seem to dismiss the old Stanley/Record blades. I've had nothing but decent steel from them. The best is a Stanley Rule and level that came with the 102 that I bought for £5!

I've tried pretty much every steel type out there, the newer Veritas PMV being the exception. I really haven't noticed that the LN, Clifton and Veritas blades being any better than the old square cut Stanley/Record blades. In fact I found that the 01 blade in my Veritas Apron plane a little disappointing, so I bought the A2 replacement blade version. Both are fine but nothing special. Same with the others.

The Quangsheng blades are good. The Mujingfang (NOT the HSS version) are remarkably good for the price. 

 

As for the Norris style adjuster, you'll get all sorts of opinions. Some love 'em, some don't. I much prefer the old Bailey style on bevel down Planes. 

[Addie]

In the old days they used to age cast iron before finishing.  And I learned in school that you can't feel anything less than 0.002" 

 

Around here, old block planes sell for $5 - $10, so I have a bunch, and use the "good" ones, 102, 110, 9 1/2...

[Dwight Brown]

I am a plane idiot.  I could never get one to work well for me.  I have had this one and it is very nice and very easy to use.  Say what you will but L-N makes very nice things and if you did not like it someone else would and would be happy to get it.

 

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/block-planes/adjustable-mouth-block-planes-?node=4072

 

 

DLB

[MarkBouquet]

In the old days they used to age cast iron before finishing.

Aging the castings doesn't stop plane bodies from distorting. There are simply forces in set up planes that tend to distort the castings. That's why planes need to be set up to operating tensions when lapping the soles. And in my experience, planes will continue to distort over time, and require lapping the soles again now and then. It's just routine maintenance, even in the best quality planes.

[David Burgess]

Don't know why folk seem to dismiss the old Stanley/Record blades.

The steel seems to be OK and take a nice edge, but a little soft. Easy to nick from hitting a little glue, a knot, etc. I also prefer much thicker blades (less flex and chatter, more stable).

 

I have been frustrated by the tendency of the depth adjuster on Lie-Nielsen block planes to deflect the cutter laterally as I'm adjusting the the cutting depth, deflecting to the right when I'm advancing the blade, and left when backing off. The adjustment is also relatively crude compared the the Norris type adjusters on Veritas planes, which don't have that deflecting tendency and have a lateral adjustment integrated into the design too. The Veritas planes also have those two set screws on the sides of the plane, down close to the cutting edge, that prevent deflection of the the cutter under planing force. I'm always impressed by the design thought and creativity that Veritas planes have, and I think they're really a step up from most everything else.

The Veritas block plane looks like a really nice design. Haven't used or taken one apart, so don't know about the quality of the machining.

 

In the old days they used to age cast iron before finishing.

Lie Nielsen claims that their ductile iron castings are stress relieved before machining. Supposed to hold their shape.

[Carl Stross]

I've tried pretty much every steel type out there, the newer Veritas PMV being the exception. I really haven't noticed that the LN, Clifton and Veritas blades being any better than the old square cut Stanley/Record blades. In fact I found that the 01 blade in my Veritas Apron plane a little disappointing, so I bought the A2 replacement blade version. Both are fine but nothing special. Same with the others.

The Quangsheng blades are good. The Mujingfang (NOT the HSS version) are remarkably good for the price. 

 

 

 

The O1 and A2 steels are not "polishable" steels. Their ability to take a super-sharp edge, to cut arm hairs half way, is more limited. So are some of the PM steels. Also, if they contain Co, they don't grind that easy. I got a distinct improvement by removing 2-3 thou from underneath so that the cutting edge is not ON a surface somehow degraded during HT, passivation, etc. I did this with my ancient lapping machine. By hand, it'll be a chore. But overall I think you make a very valuable point and in general there is a bit of a zero sum game. . To my knowledge, there are only a few steels engineered for taking a super sharp edge and they are difficult to purchase. Bohler has a PM one I had a plane blade made from but it was incredibly wasteful as it comes in 8mm thickness. Hard to sharpen but good because it is "polishable". It cuts wood by looking at it.  If what you want is edge, look for OLD carbon cast tool steel or "paper knife" steel.