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Mammoth ivory


FiddleDoug
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That is funny because it's true. Even though most people I'd dine with knew I was vegan, I mostly didn't make a thing of it if it was a bigger group and there was nothing to eat at the restaurant. If I was hungry I'd find something vegetarian. But even confirming the mashed potatoes don't have pork tallow or something will draw attention to the person to someone who thinks veganism or caring about such things at all is stupid. Bad vegan I was. But egg/milk etc. didn't make me physically ill, I slipped if I needed to. And then, eventually slipped for good because nothing in the vegan universe tastes like gruyere.

I'm ok now, with all of my digestive enzymes back (if you don't use em you lose em). :)

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About the nuts. The better they look, the more risk you run from energetic customs inspectors. Lots of old pips were made of bone. Looks good but even though obvious to most of us, will it pass the "might be elephant" test?

 

Many pegs, in fact all mass produced ones, have plastic collars if they are white. They are molded and glued on, and depend on the glue, not the fit to stay put.  They look like plastic. Not interested, not set up to make molds. When I reluctantly made white collars I made donuts of Mammoth and reamed them out to fit the taper of the peg and fit them individually up snug against the small flange below the neck. I turn them when they are glued to the pegs and if they stay through that turning heat and force, I know they won't come off farther down their life of tuning. For that reason, they are ridiculously hard to replace with another collar.

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...Lots of old pips were made of bone. Looks good but even though obvious to most of us, will it pass the "might be elephant" test?...

 

Can you describe the differences in appearance between bone and ivory that are "obvious to most of us."  I'm not sure that they are obvious to me.

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Bone has pores and different color when it ages. Different colors of white are hard to describe but apparent. That is the reason it is so hard to use color and glue to match fill. Dentists have hundreds of variations of white to use. When I am making bone pips for baroque copies or to match an old peg, I often us tea to age it . Hard brittle and porous. Shines differently too. All those years of replacing guitar nuts made the distinction clear to me. Sorry if I sounded pedantic. The Hills used a lot of ivory for their high end stuff so it trickled down to representing the upper 1%, unfortunately. Ivory decoration was also used extensively in the 17th century for the instruments of the Courts of Europe. Hell it was even used for the Pharaohs tooth picks.  

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I believe it's already illegal in a couple of states. More to follow?

 

Eeesh!

So - we're on the road to Mammoth illegality already?

Yes once this type of thing starts, often it doesn't stop.

 

I suppose I'm going to have to look it up now, and see where my state (NM) is on the roster...

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I haven't actually seen a silver tip on a bow in person.  But I like the way it looks in photos.  Isn't that an option?  And a historically, or traditionally correct one as well?

There are materials available for new making, the problem is the old bows.

Silver changes the weight and more importantly the balance point.

Silver also needs to be pinned on, and pins can cause cracks.

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I haven't actually seen a silver tip on a bow in person.  But I like the way it looks in photos.  Isn't that an option?  And a historically, or traditionally correct one as well?

 

One big issue is that metal tips are not traditional on many bows.  When a pristine Sartory with a perfect, original tip ivory comes into the shop, are you going to "vandalize" it by replacing it with tip armor or silver?

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Well...aren't you vandalizing it by replacing it with anything that isn't original to that bow, or period of bow?

 

And what about repairs?  Are repairs vandalism of a sort - if they require replacement of any materials?  Even if you can't tell when the work is done?

 

Not arguing...just thinking... :)  And if the ivory/mammoth ban holds...what are your options?  Anything will be vandalism then.

 

I can see that changing the balance of the bow by altering the weight distribution is a concern though.  And I assume cracking from pins is as well.

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I think it NY, NJ, and CA. I understand it is even illegal to keep a mammoth as a pet in California, but I might be mistaken about that.

 

Here in New Mexico, we do have the occasional Mammoth killed in the road by passing traffic.

But - someone has ALWAYS already taken the damned tusks.

 

Just my luck.

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Well...aren't you vandalizing it by replacing it with anything that isn't original to that bow, or period of bow?

 

And what about repairs?  Are repairs vandalism of a sort - if they require replacement of any materials?  Even if you can't tell when the work is done?

 

Not arguing...just thinking... :)  And if the ivory/mammoth ban holds...what are your options?  Anything will be vandalism then.

 

I can see that changing the balance of the bow by altering the weight distribution is a concern though.  And I assume cracking from pins is as well.

 

No, there are parts of a bow that get replaced with wear: hair, thumb leather, even ivory tips.  That said, an effort is made to "do no harm" and keep the bow as the maker intended. 

 

Repairs are a necessity when needed.  Removing/replacing perfectly good original parts of the bow due to an ineffective law is another issue.  Unfortunately, I, and many others, know that many bows are being altered in order to maneuver past these laws. 

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We all (almost all) agree it's a screwed up mess. The trick is to convince the groups who have blinders in their direction, even if the direction is righteous,  that there is a group of people who have absolutely no effect on the welfare of elephants who are left hanging out to dry.  

 

Each State is doing it a little differently. I think that the California bill says that if an item has less than 20% ivory and was made before 1975 it can be sold. That may cover the dealing in Sartorys but it still lumps mammoth with elephant and doesn't cover modern makers in the years of 1975 to present who either used and old stash of elephant ivory instead of wasting it or mammoth.  It's like making rhinestone jewelry illegal because someone may be smuggling blood diamonds. 

 

Maybe we should call it mastodon and make them re-write the laws to get anther crack at convincing them.

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