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Mammoth ivory


FiddleDoug
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I have bought mammoth ivory when it was (still is?) perfectly legal.

I must admit that I get a little cranky when even a shadow is placed on its use. Mammoth is an alternative that came into common use in our business to help save the elephant population long before the present crisis when very few people were paying attention. Now, after close to 40 years, those new to the game would like to make us out to be amoral elephant hunters when we have been having this fight since before the extinction of bell bottoms. For those, I would like to know how many times when faced with a decision, did they choose NOT to use elephant ivory? For us, this is a decision that has been made daily for decades quietly and without fanfare or press conference.

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It's ok to be angry about stupid laws, but we still have to deal with the reality that presents itself and take responsibility as professionals for the wellbeing of our clients and their equipment. The unfortunate fact is that for the folks tasked with enforcing these new rules, mammoth ivory is just too similar to elephant ivory. The same may even go for some of the new alternative materials available for headplates that are man-made. I don't know about you, but I don't want to risk that any my customers beloved, invaluable bows might be confiscated during an international trip. This reality stands outside of what we may think of the effectiveness or intelligence of the new ivory law. Maybe metal headplates would be best?

Just my two cents...

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The burden of proof should be on the government.  If they cannot tell the difference they should not be able to enforce the rule!  I am afraid that there is almost nothing that will save the elephant or many other animals.  Other than moving a substantial population to a completely protected place at astronomical cost.  The average person in Africa is rightly worried about where their next meal is coming from and whether their children will live to adulthood. Pending genocide, starvation, war, AIDS, abduction, religious intolerance, tribal hatred.......... on it goes.  

 

Immortal and historic works of art should not be maimed just to make them conform to modern, western, political correctness, it's just wrong.

 

As far as animal products go we are in real trouble!  Horse hair, leather, hide glue, bone, not to mention rare and endangered wood.  

 

There the babbling is over, please continue with your regularly scheduled programs.

 

But remember 99.9% of all species that ever lived on planet earth are extinct.  Every day species that have never been identified become extinct without anyone ever having known of them.  Is an insect less important than a mammal?  I really don't know.  What is people find out about silk and how those silk worms are plunged into boiling water to steal their cocoons.

 

 

DLB

 

 

Sorry, 

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A lot of these "high and mighty" do-gooders are basically hypocryts. They claim to be all for the environment, or some other cause, when the alternatives to the thing that they are against, is another whole problem. Here a big bunch, protesting oil, while riding in kayaks made from petrolium, after driving to the site in petrolium powered vehicles, many wearing petrolium based clothes.

 

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2015/05/kayaktavistsv-take-over-seattles-elliott-bay-protest-shell-oil-rig

 

As for vegan violinists, if they want a totally vegan product, they can probably go to a violin maker and have one made (for several thousand $). Remember, no hide glue, no horse hair, and of course no shellac or egg based sealers. of course, they could always go to some kind of wind instrument.

 

If you're into those causes (I am an environmental proponent, into energy savings and alternative energy when feasable), you need to look at ALL the impacts, and decide where things should be on the list.

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A lot of these "high and mighty" do-gooders are basically hypocryts. They claim to be all for the environment, or some other cause, when the alternatives to the thing that they are against, is another whole problem. Here a big bunch, protesting oil, while riding in kayaks made from petrolium, after driving to the site in petrolium powered vehicles, many wearing petrolium based clothes.

 

Doug, I think that is called a "Priass".

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According to Tarisio one can actually tell the difference with a UV light. Not a very expensive test. Hell, even I had one for body painting parties in college. :o

Pretty wild for a peg maker :-)

 

Remember that there is no such thing has a vegan or even vegetarian native or natural society.  If you don't get at least some animal products you don't get B12 (among other things) and you can't reproduce (Medical and nutritional anthropology in college) .  

 

I guess it would also include no silk, wool, leather, petroleum, plastics, or a number of other things.

 

DLB

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It's ok to be angry about stupid laws, but we still have to deal with the reality that presents itself and take responsibility as professionals for the wellbeing of our clients and their equipment. The unfortunate fact is that for the folks tasked with enforcing these new rules, mammoth ivory is just too similar to elephant ivory. The same may even go for some of the new alternative materials available for headplates that are man-made. I don't know about you, but I don't want to risk that any my customers beloved, invaluable bows might be confiscated during an international trip. This reality stands outside of what we may think of the effectiveness or intelligence of the new ivory law. Maybe metal headplates would be best?

Just my two cents...

The solution is to support lobbyists who can get bows exempt from the law. Then you can use either ivory.

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Really the only thing that separates us from all our other animal cohabitants is our ability to think.

And, IMO, with that comes a serious responsibility to be good stewards of the earth and all its resources.

Humans have evolved as omnivores. We eat meat as our protein source. Living in first world countries gives us other dietary options to explore...but does not change our nature.

I have no issue with the merciful and responsible production and use of animal products. This includes animal by-products.

The whole planet needs to be on board with stewardship however...you can't have one population being good stewards and other populations not...for it all to work.

Our planet has long exceeded its natural carrying capacity of humans so we do have to learn how to manage ourselves in the big picture as well...or there will come a sad day of reckoning.

In the meantime. ..vegans are free to be vegans. But we all need to keep our perspectives in line.

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With even strong imaginative skills it's difficult to predict the future with any hope of accuracy, but an expanding number of people really want the use of animal products to go the way of other horrors in the past of human history: human and animal sacrifice, infibulation, slavery, witch burning, child brides. Actually, all these things still exists in isolated pockets of humanity, but they are not generally accepted any longer. And every reform was met with resistance, complaisanse, and excuses made for continuing the status quo, not to mention the myriad problems encountered by the reformers.

It's sad, to me, that this won't happen in my lifetime, in all likelihood, but rest assured, happen it will.

Comparing the use of fossilized mastodon ivory to human sacrifice and genital mutilation? How ....what the...never mind.

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I think, I hope, that most people can agree that abuse (of anything) is wrong.
 
Having said that...who determines what is of value and what is not?
 
I have met `vegetarians` who eat fish.  :mellow:  I have met active Catholics eat fish on `meatless Fridays` :huh:

We had a mouse in our basement yesterday. If I can catch them alive...I will release them down the road (where they can be `free`). However yesterday it took 2 grown men and 3 cats to catch it. It didn`t make it. Should the 5 culprits turn themselves in for mousicide?

I constantly run into people who don`t consider insects to be animals.   Or what about people who are saving the Monarchs, but killing mosquitoes?

Why are we chaining ourselves to Giant Redwoods but clear-cutting forests of other trees?

Why is it okay to eat a plant? A plant is a living organism. Just because we think that plants don`t have feelings doesn`t mean plants don`t have feelings. Maybe we will yet discover that down the road.

Why is okay to use plastic products? The production of plastic uses up natural resources. So...all those people who are wearing non-leather shoes are killing our planet. Go barefoot! I hope nobody has pressboard/particleboard furniture in their homes...or carpeting made out of synthetic fibres. I hope no one heats their homes...even solar panels are made of plastics, so that would just be wrong. I hope no one rides a bicycle...its made of metal. Metal comes from foundries...and foundries pollute.

And I really really hope NO ONE has a Keurig (or similar) coffee machine. They produce so much garbage it`s unbelievable.

Better not be eating Greek Yogurt either...

Maybe we should all stop getting vaccinated too...since much of that was tested on animals. Let disease take its course!

Yes...I know what I`m doing :ph34r:. But it`s to make a point. Maybe I didn`t need to make the point, but I feel better that I did. :)
 

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