Bridge treatment - what is the purpose?

[jim mcavoy]

That Stamm letter does not mention bridge wood, only plate wood. Not sure why you would assume the same for bridge wood.

Capt'nhook, My response: (no disrespect intended)

 

 

Case one: what is this thread about?

Case two:: what does Milo Stam dot-com curently sell?

Case three: what do they know about wood treatment?

case 137: when does any procedure demand only one end use?

case 400 .....~

Not sure why you would assume the same for bridge wood. I assume this is not a confrontation or a demand for an absolute.....This is being mother-in- law's department

 

Why not? For me, it is worth a flyer into the unknown to answer my questions

 

Jim.

[jim mcavoy]

I don't know if this means anything

 

.re: my wood soak

 

all four bridges are now sinkers, I put a little vinegar mother in the water yesterday and the bridges are showing signs of off gassing this morning (2 small bubbles when I disturbed them)~ If I have a colony going, the water has to be aerated ..got a ton of 'not sure' going here .I, just now, put a wood tooth pick dipped in maple syrup to serve as a tattle-tail in the water. (might work)

 

jim

[jim mcavoy]

re: water treatment

I am beginning to suspect subtle shades of falderal with this approach, ( my aunt Tilly could have told me that) how ever, as a flier ..it's worth a shot (kind-of) and just proceed as though I know what I'm doing.

 

A redo is in order to track the changes,if any .....or detemine if this is different way to ruin a possibly good bridge

 

Jim

[jim mcavoy]

Re: Bridge

I have my first bridge out of the soaking jar and it is partially dry It looks as though it had been bleached and the grain stands out in relief

Using the drop test, the ring toe has risen one tone (A to B Nat) the impressive thing is that ring has become very clear this did not happen with the baking venture.

I would say the if this were a violin plate I would be pretty excited

The process that I used was clear water until it was a sinker

Then added a little maple syrup and a maple leaf from last year which had, no doubt, a full zoo on and in it.

The yeasts took off immediately, and the sinker became a floater for about a day (at this stage the water has to be aerated)

When it became a sinker again the assumption is that the yeasts were done. Next came a little vinegar mother to finish the yeast and farther treat the wood (if any) when the water began to clear the bridge came out to dry . a mini-kiln would be nice however this one will air dry, perhaps a week to 2 weeks

Then we will see if ~ good or bad or not worth the effort

Edited June 15, 2015 by seammc

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

Hah, being somewhat the colonial rebellious type, I neither color nor stamp my bridges.

 

I'll confess to polishing my shank(s) though.

No bridge stamping, David?  I find that several reps of a two-footed stomp increases the wood density but the bridge ends up running a little on the flat side.   If I wear my rubber tire-soled sandals I got in India 50 years ago, it adds some patina but I got tread of that look pretty fast.

[jim mcavoy]

Re: treating wood on bridges (A ramble ~ a senior's prerogative)

Stand back a little and look at the bridge function…One of the things it does is transfer the energy of the string to the violin box

The easiest target, for tinkering, is the remnants of the vascular system A.K.A. the wood rays or pith rays,. To modify the admittances and impedances of that transfer being the most likely object of the various procedures.

Time ,may well, be the bench mark, ….there is a difference between 200+ year old wood and something still growing leaves.(generally not available as a choice)

Other Options:

Chemical, Ammonia being the most common (degrading the nutrient debris and possibly the hemicelluloses) …. The least likely being Embalming Fluid (preservative????)

Modest heat, most probable, an attempt to move time along to get cell atrophy and get nutrient residue degradation.

Soaking, precipitation of sugars and other soluble elements…. With microbes, the elimination of anything that is food

…. And the list goes on

Jim

Edited June 16, 2015 by seammc

[DGV]

What about carbon fibre or plastic for bridge material?

[jim mcavoy]

What about carbon fibre or plastic for bridge material?

way out of my leaque

 

I should think that a carbon fiber bridge would be a designer construct with regard to fiber orientation in the x,y,z planes also fiber length and population density would come into play. .... I'm sure that someone is working on it

 

Plastic? Da Vinci came up with a plastic similar to bakelite and, I believe, was made from milk, that may have some application here (but don't know)

Jim

[jim mcavoy]

I now have a mini-kiln made up from a 400 watt food dehydrator It is running a temp of 125F and the chamber is a 4.5% moisture ....well within good kiln practices

3 wet bridges are now being treated I will have to watch the chamber moisture as I don't have an automatic moisture make up. I would really like a 5% or 5.5% level ...A small water cup and wick may be a help....the last thing I want is bone dry or a temp over 160F for Maple

a better control may be an AC motor speed controller and I will give that a try (if I can find it)

Jim

Edited June 16, 2015 by seammc

[jim mcavoy]

The first soaked bridge is on the violin, dry and trimmed to tolerance

The wood: very difficult under the knife, the wood fights back when cutting it ~ I ruined two before success! Overall not easy to work with

Playing: This bridge just blows me away (with reservations) the projection of sound though the bridge is the best that I have ever tried, however, any misjudgment in bow technique stands out ~ I shudder to think what a beginning player would sound like.

Sound: starts and stops … no squeaks, no growls when skating or sculpting from piano to forte I have always had trouble with runs played spare bow. That problem kind of went away. Whoopee!

Pros.: sounds great, with lots of tone color (depending on technique) fairly easy to play - dynamics are very easy

Cons: ‘sluffing off’ leads to a swift playing disaster. (Not at all forgiving) Not for a complete novice maker - kind of a tough project.

Conclusions: worth the effort, but a lot of work. I wouldn’t use it on a vso. On a Strad ….In a heartbeat (If I had one)

And ‘no’ I’m not going into the bridge business. …. I just think that bride treatments was worth a hands-on look.(and not with the intent of Hijacking the thread)

Jim

[David Burgess]

Pros.: sounds great, with lots of tone color (depending on technique) fairly easy to play - dynamics are very easy

Conclusions: worth the effort, but a lot of work. I wouldn’t use it on a vso. On a Strad ….In a heartbeat (If I had one)

 

Thanks for sharing your results.

You tried one bridge on one violin (not a Strad)? And out of that, you'd be eager to use it on a Strad?

 

One mistake we too often make in our business, is trying something on one or two or five fiddles, getting good results, and thinking it will work on all fiddles. Musicians do it too. Someone in the section tries a new tailpiece or something, gets good results, and pretty soon, everyone in the section is using that tailpiece. Some of the instruments work and sound better, and some are worse, but it can take some time to realize this. "Placebo effect" and all.

 

I dealt with one of these musician-experimenters over the last two days. The instrument originally sounded quite good. Numerous changes since then. Took me two days of work to get the instrument back to where it pleased the owner, and as it turned out, that mostly entailed going back to the original setup.

[DGV]

The first soaked bridge is on the violin, dry and trimmed to tolerance

The wood: very difficult under the knife, the wood fights back when cutting it ~ I ruined two before success! Overall not easy to work with

Playing: This bridge just blows me away (with reservations) the projection of sound though the bridge is the best that I have ever tried, however, any misjudgment in bow technique stands out ~ I shudder to think what a beginning player would sound like.

Sound: starts and stops … no squeaks, no growls when skating or sculpting from piano to forte I have always had trouble with runs played spare bow. That problem kind of went away. Whoopee!

Pros.: sounds great, with lots of tone color (depending on technique) fairly easy to play - dynamics are very easy

Cons: ‘sluffing off’ leads to a swift playing disaster. (Not at all forgiving) Not for a complete novice maker - kind of a tough project.

Conclusions: worth the effort, but a lot of work. I wouldn’t use it on a vso. On a Strad ….In a heartbeat (If I had one)

And ‘no’ I’m not going into the bridge business. …. I just think that bride treatments was worth a hands-on look.(and not with the intent of Hijacking the thread)

Jim

 

Does this mean that one can safely buy cheap Chinese bridges instead of the Milo Stamms?  

[jim mcavoy]

Thanks for sharing your results.

You tried one bridge on one violin (not a Strad)? And out of that, you'd be eager to use it on a Strad?

That is not likely to happen.  I am not strad quality and won't be any time in the forseeable future (not try ....own ~ also won't happen)

 

I do think that everyone would like to try one once in their life, and thats not going to happen either

 

Jim

Edited June 18, 2015 by seammc

[jim mcavoy]

Does this mean that one can safely buy cheap Chinese bridges instead of the Milo Stamms?

I doubt it .... that would be an unwarrented leap

Obviously the worst possible choice to make, purposely, but think what could have been, if the trial pieces were select (and I didn't screw up)

Jim

Edited June 17, 2015 by seammc

[JeremyL]

Living in an environment where the humidity can range from tropical to alpine from one day to the next, I notice violin bridges tend to curl backwards away from the fingerboard when it is warm and humid but straighten when it is dry.  Is this something that might be remedied by using a treated bridge?