Group Build?

[Urban Luthier]

audio files are fine. As long as the team can deal with my rather unpredictable work schedule!

[Lusitano]

What's left to be done besides sharpening tools?

 

I'm sure I will fill up the quota of educational curse words if I'm asked to do anything complicated and have to record myself doing it, it's a very large part of instrument making!

[not telling]

No volunteers for the arching just yet, or the neck set (everyone's favorite) or the fingerboard...hmm. Am I right that you all are thinking the same person will rough and final arch both plates, purfle both sides, do the bar, plus do the ffs? That whole job would be easier if it could be done by multiple people working closely. That's why I was thinking the convention might be good. Fun project though, and I'll enjoy seeing any documentation that happens.

[joerobson]

I think that either have it end up with a student who needs it or sold to support students in Luthier school or restoration.  Better ideas welcome.  I think I have a spare case that will do as well.

 

 

DLB

Auctioned at the VSA Convention would send the $ to the scholarship fund.

[James M. Jones]

I agree with NT, doing both plates is kind of a big deal for one person , especially considering the 'custom ' nature of the thing .  best to break it down into smaller steps .... possibly. .....just last month I built a massive joiners board and with my new Ln jointers plane from last year was able to join 8 sets of plates with no failures and quick as a lick .... so I would sign up for doing that as well .

  I also agree with Joe about VSA , while it is true that VSA is not MN ....it is also true that VSA is the leading group for strings making in north America and we all owe a debt to the organization by virtue of proximity, virtually every concerned  violin maker in the states has benefited either directly ....or indirectly ....because of work done by the VSA and it's organizers. ..... give credit where credit is due.

 That said there might be other options besides the auction, with some creative thought .... it would be nice to see a young player be able to use the instrument ...perhaps for two years, and then it could be re/presented at the next conference ....just rolling create dice .....

[Rue]

...then you have an administration issue.  Who is going to volunteer to look after a lending program?

[Dwight Brown]

Folks,

 

I'm sorry I have not been around today, but it is the end of the school year and I am running around like a nut case.  I really have been trying to get organized (a hell of a thing for me)

 

 

DLB

[Dwight Brown]

OK, in the spirit of throwing money at the problem I just ordered the mould and patterns from Cremona tools.  It ought to make life easier.  I guess the elephant in the room is the plates.  I need some suggestions on what the best or possible division of labor would be.

 

DLB

[Craig Tucker]

OK Dwight this is just a suggestion;

Realize that I'm not suggesting myself as a participant,

as I do not want to enter a 'violin making' contest of any kind at this point . I am very busy with some bow making minutia, struggling with making silver parts just now....

but - 

For nine or ten people, (violin makers) it could be divided somewhat like this;

 

 

1.One person makes the neck/scroll assembly (it only takes a couple of hours, right?)

2. Another makes the rib assembly (to spec - a Strad poster, etc.)

3. Have one person split and join both boards; for the (both top and bottom) plates; & flatten them.

4. Have another person cut out, & thickness the back plate, (to spec - a Strad poster, or etc.)

5. Have another cut out, & thickness the front plate.(to spec - a Strad poster, or etc.)

6. Have another individual cut the ff holes, & put in the bass bar.

7. then have another purfle both plates.

8. Then one person can glue the various parts together, as a whole violin aligned correctly.

9. Then one sets the fiddle up - with the f.b, tailpiece, chinrest, bridge, s.p., & strings

10. and a final person can varnish it.

 

??

I've tried to separate out the jobs according to approximate length of time, and amount of effort or work involved, plus, there is the fact that if everybody is working from the same Strad poster (just as an example) it won't matter really who is doing what when...

Other than, the person cutting and joining the rough boards, will have to do so in a somewhat timely manner, in order to allow some ofthe other steps (plate carving, purfling - etc.) to get done also - and the like. 

 

Are there really that many actual makers on Mnet?

This is going to be an interesting, and, if it is ever accomplished, it will be a GREAT thing...

Yes, I'd be very interested in seeing this accomplished and chronicled here...

Go for it!

[Marty Kasprzyk]

OK Dwight this is just a suggestion;

Realize that I'm not suggesting myself as a participant,

as I do not want to enter a 'violin making' contest of any kind at this point . I am very busy with some bow making minutia, struggling with making silver parts just now....

but - 

For nine or ten people, (violin makers) it could be divided somewhat like this;

 

 

1.One person makes the neck/scroll assembly (it only takes a couple of hours, right?)

2. Another makes the rib assembly (to spec - a Strad poster, etc.)

3. Have one person split and join both boards; for the (both top and bottom) plates; & flatten them.

4. Have another person cut out, & thickness the back plate, (to spec - a Strad poster, or etc.)

5. Have another cut out, & thickness the front plate.(to spec - a Strad poster, or etc.)

6. Have another individual cut the ff holes, & put in the bass bar.

7. then have another purfle both plates.

8. Then one person can glue the various parts together, as a whole violin aligned correctly.

9. Then one sets the fiddle up - with the f.b, tailpiece, chinrest, bridge, s.p., & strings

10. and a final person can varnish it.

 

??

I've tried to separate out the jobs according to approximate length of time, and amount of effort or work involved, plus, there is the fact that if everybody is working from the same Strad poster (just as an example) it won't matter really who is doing what when...

Other than, the person cutting and joining the rough boards, will have to do so in a somewhat timely manner, in order to allow some ofthe other steps (plate carving, purfling - etc.) to get done also - and the like. 

 

Are there really that many actual makers on Mnet?

This is going to be an interesting, and, if it is ever accomplished, it will be a GREAT thing...

Yes, I'd be very interested in seeing this accomplished and chronicled here...

Go for it!

We can duplicate a Chinese factory.

[not telling]

I would suggest to get someone to purfle and rough arch plates before shipping it all to the next person, right?  At least, based on my observations I would guess that the purfler would purfle before the plates are thinned down and ffs carved. There are usually several ways to get cats skinned, so I guess it's a question.  Is that not the way it's usually done?

 

Shipping everything back and forth is going to be a cluster...and expensive...

[Will L]

IMO, organizing the whole thing is the first order of business, and it needs to be based on what we're trying to do.  Organizing gets harder and more critical the better we want the violin to be;  the quicker we want it done; and the more people are involved.  

 

If we just want a VSO, with a few people involved, and no time-table, then things get simpler:  one guy does the rib-garland and sends it on to a guy who makes a back based on the garland, then he sends it on to the guy who does the top, etc.

 

IMO, the most interesting—and maybe instructive— thing about this project would not the violin itself but how the work is organized.  And it will be MORE instructive the more seriously we take it.  Personally, I think we shouldn't rush into actual production just to be doing something;  I think designing the project should be well thought out and argued. 

 

Am I taking things TOO seriously, or am I on to something?

[James M. Jones]

Craig , agreed, breaking down the steps should allow more people to participate , personally I don't see the competition side of the project , as much as the opportunity to participate in a larger whole. I have learned so much here on MN listening to the conversations looking at pics and then going down to the shop and trying new ideas , I personally owe a great debt to this community .... is there ANYONE here who has not learned something from the discourse here?  

 .

Will, agreed , in similar projects I have worked on ....blacksmiths are famous for their teamwork ... there was generally a build master who worked with individuals in a sort of pass /no pass type of way . Also highlighted was the need for clear goals and a solid plan to finish before making any noise....or chips in this case .

 

 In the spirit of teamwork, I would gladly step down from carving the scroll ..if someone else wants to volunteer, and do whatever is asked of me ......  

[Dwight Brown]

Ok this is how I have it at the moment, feel free to shoot it down if needed.

 

Model:  Brothers Amati Viola from recent fancy book (I'm at school and can't spell or think)

 

Wood:  European spruce and maple - Dwight

 

Mould:  Ordered from Cremona Tools (I figured that would give a good foundation for the thing and it includes arching templates and other templates)

 

Scroll: J.M. Jones

 

Ribs:  EM Violins

 

Top: Open

 

Back: Open

 

Varnish: Joe Robson

 

Set Up: Matthew Noykos

 

Fittings: Open

 

Fingerboard: Open

 

Neck Set: Open

 

Case:  DLB

 

 

End Of Project:  Sale, or Auction, or Sealed Bid proceeds to go to VSA scholarships.

 

Any excess Shipping costs: DLB

 

 

Please feel free to pin my ears back at anytime as this would be the best time to do it.   I think also that we should not set to tight a schedule or deadline .

 

Documentation and article: TBA

 

 

I'm here pretty much this summer.  PM me or email at freepistol@gmail.com.

 

 

DLB

(Dinner, Lunch, and Breakfast)

[Jim Bress]

Just keeping fuel on the fire:

 

Urban Luthier is the archivist

 

Matt Noykos volunteered for the setup. Will that include fittings and fingerboard?

 

There are two volunteers for the scroll/neck, Mike Jones and something from the pile of Amati scrolls that NT's other half has on hand.

 

The guesswork (decision making) for the arches has been removed by following the templates that Dwight purchased.  What about the plate graduations?  Should the graduation map be followed and hope for the best, or follow a decision making process for when to stop removing wood for the top and back plates?  

 

As Mike said, I think it would be a very good idea to have a "build master", so that decision points (that are bound to arise) are all answered by the same voice.

 

Just my 2 cents,

Jim

[Matthew Noykos]

Matt Noykos volunteered for the setup. Will that include fittings and fingerboard?

 

I assumed it meant fitting pegs, soundpost, bridge, planing fingerboard, end button and tailpiece. Does that mean I'm supplying the fittings and the bridge blank? I assumed the fingerboard would already be on the instrument and it would just need to be planed and finished.

[Matthew Noykos]

Part of my wanting to do the setup is that 1) I like the idea of giving something to a scholarship fund or greater cause and contributing as a group. By me doing the setup, that guarantees that by the time I get it, this will actually be happening. 2) I get to see the final product and see how it turned out.

With that last one, I would feel it to be unfortunate if only a couple of people, including myself got to see the finished product in person. I suggest at the least bringing the finished product to a VSA convention so all those involved can see the thing finished in person.

[Dwight Brown]

I think the VSA convention would be the way to go.  Do they let derfs like me join and go to the convention if we keep our mouths shut?

 

 

DLB

[Rue]

And for those of us living far far away...photos of the process please!

[not telling]

If I thought I would not be murdered for volunteering the plates, I might. It's a worthy project and all, but I want to live. If some of you have time for the plates at the convention, that would be so awesome and probably the best chance of a more organic stylistic agreement if the plates will have lots of hands on them (I don't see one person who would be thrilled to throw that many hours at the project, but you can't have the plates not match.) There are really a ton of holes here, not to be a wet blanket. For example, no neck set guy. And who will pore over the edgework? It is an Amati after all, someone has to. What would maybe really work would be some collaboration at the event.

Anyone know if players will be attending VSA 2015 in droves like at last year's? Players love to watch the process. If any of the making/set up/varnishing happened on site, most of the players there would be riveted. And possibly moved to bid. And won't there be...uh...trade publications there? Indeed.

Just ideas, ignore if this is all bad ideas.

[joerobson]

Ok this is how I have it at the moment, feel free to shoot it down if needed.

 

Model:  Brothers Amati Viola from recent fancy book (I'm at school and can't spell or think)

 

Wood:  European spruce and maple - Dwight

 

Mould:  Ordered from Cremona Tools (I figured that would give a good foundation for the thing and it includes arching templates and other templates)

 

Scroll: J.M. Jones

 

Ribs:  EM Violins

 

Top: Open

 

Back: Open

 

Varnish: Joe Robeson

 

Set Up: Matthew Noykos

 

Fittings: Open

 

Fingerboard: Open

 

Neck Set: Open

 

Case:  DLB

 

 

End Of Project:  Sale, or Auction, or Sealed Bid proceeds to go to VSA scholarships.

 

Any excess Shipping costs: DLB

 

 

Please feel free to pin my ears back at anytime as this would be the best time to do it.   I think also that we should not set to tight a schedule or deadline .

 

Documentation and article: TBA

 

 

I'm here pretty much this summer.  PM me or email at freepistol@gmail.com.

 

 

DLB

(Dinner, Lunch, and Breakfast)

Dwight,

It's Robson.....thanks

Joethevarnishguy

[Dwight Brown]

Sorry Joe,  I knew I was wrong but I spent the rest of the day herding cats and I could not get back to the computer.  You got a bonus E!!

 

 

DLB

 

The funny thing is auto correct turned you into joethevarnishbuy :-)  

[joerobson]

fixed...........

[Jim Bress]

I assumed it meant fitting pegs, soundpost, bridge, planing fingerboard, end button and tailpiece. Does that mean I'm supplying the fittings and the bridge blank? I assumed the fingerboard would already be on the instrument and it would just need to be planed and finished.

I would really like to see this project succeed.  For my part I will donate the fingerboard.  I can mail it to Matt when Joe gets ready to varnish.  

 

-Jim

[not telling]

...? Won't the person doing the neck set need the fingerboard? I hope the neck set isn't being foisted on Matt too. Although I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

Maybe I am not understanding how many ways there are to do this.

Is there a need to set the neck w/fingerboard on to get it lined up right?

I know I am only watching one person do stuff, and maybe sometimes I have a tendency to think I'm learning the only way. I also think organization is pretty imperative if this is going to happen.