Decorated Stradivari

[Dwight Brown]

I was looking at a little book I got from the Ashmolian and it had a small decorated Stradivari violin, the Cipriani-Potter.  I have seen other Stradivari that use this technique.  It is usually stated that the patterns are carved into the instrument and filled  with a black mastic.  I am pretty sure I have no idea what this mastic is.  I always think of mastic as a very stick black glue or caulking or something that is used in varnish.

 

Is there anyone that does this kind of work or is it one of those things that have passed into the realm of lost arts?

 

DLB

[Bruce Carlson]

I was looking at a little book I got from the Ashmolian and it had a small decorated Stradivari violin, the Cipriani-Potter.  I have seen other Stradivari that use this technique.  It is usually stated that the patterns are carved into the instrument and filled  with a black mastic.  I am pretty sure I have no idea what this mastic is.  I always think of mastic as a very stick black glue or caulking or something that is used in varnish.

 

Is there anyone that does this kind of work or is it one of those things that have passed into the realm of lost arts?

 

DLB

Hi Dwight,

 

Ebony raspings and hide glue work just fine. Mostly ebony and just enough glue to hold it together and form a fairly stiff paste. You have to fill twice due to shrinkage but it works like a charm.

 

Bruce

[not telling]

I was just talking about one of those decorated Strads last night. What do you use to apply the filler? I thought maybe a needle but that would take forever.

[Kev Chanot]

I would've thought a small palette knife or similar would be ideal,then just use scrapers to remove excess material & final finishing.

[not telling]

That makes sense...and there's the "purfling". Impossible. Not quite impossible, but difficult to plan the diamonds in each corner and pull it off.

[Kev Chanot]

It has been done successfully in recent times,I believe there are some pretty good Chinese examples.

[Piergiuseppe]

Hi Dwight,

 

Enony raspings and hide glue work just fine. Mostly ebony and just enough glue to hold it together and form a fairly stiff paste. You have to fill twice due to shrinkage but it works like a charm.

 

Bruce

This photograph represents me with a violin.

The photo is of Itsvan Konja 'senior' made to the school of violin making of CR on 1967.

The violin was built by him, that I have not done. At that time it built pegs Cello with Maestro Peter Sgarabotto.

He used the same method to the grout. After knowing SF. Sacconi.

[Bruce Carlson]

I was just talking about one of those decorated Strads last night. What do you use to apply the filler? I thought maybe a needle but that would take forever.

Pack it in tight with a warm palette knife, working in different directions.

[Bruce Carlson]

I would've thought a small palette knife or similar would be ideal,then just use scrapers to remove excess material & final finishing.

Scraper can be dangerous because you can chip out small bits of filler or even maple in the rib and scroll designs and then you've got to do it again. In the end I preferred a sharp file with a finer one to finish up. For the curved areas little riffler files.

 

That makes sense...and there's the "purfling". Impossible. Not quite impossible, but difficult to plan the diamonds in each corner and pull it off.

First comes the two rows of purfling and then the wood in between the two is chipped out for the inlay of the dots and lozenges. I put a little soap on the side of the purfling facing the central channel to avoid chipping out the purfling as well.

 

The dots and lozenges must be set in place and carefully lined up prior to gluing. That way you can't make a mistake. The you glue them in one by one. Tedious but not really that difficult.

 

Bruce

[Dwight Brown]

Thanks for all the great responses!  It must take a ton of time to do the decoration, nearly as much as the rest of the instrument.

 

DLB

[Bruce Carlson]

Thanks for all the great responses!  It must take a ton of time to do the decoration, nearly as much as the rest of the instrument.

 

DLB

The first time is a lot longer. About twice as long as making a normal violin. Once you have all the patterns made and the tools required you can go a lot faster.

 

Bruce

 

[joshuabeyer]

Tschu Ho Lee has made a few decorated instruments like this, at least using the pearl inlay technique. I think his most recent one was in 2011 or 2012? For the Warren shop. I don't think he's done the carving in the ribs or scrolls, and that part seems much more difficult to me than the inlay. 

 

Bruce, is that your instrument? Very nice!

[MANFIO]

I like the decorated Strads, I imagine there was some Spanish inlfuence in their production.

 

I find it interesting how the violin emerged as a clean looking instrument in a time most instruments were highly decorated.

[Omobono]

I like the decorated Strads, I imagine there was some Spanish inlfuence in their production.

 

I find it interesting how the violin emerged as a clean looking instrument in a time most instruments were highly decorated.

Here is an example of some 16th Century Spanish inlay work with ivory.

 

That having been said, the destination of the Amati instruments was the French court of Charles IX whose mother was Catherine de Medici. So surely current French and Italian tastes might have been in the forefront?

[Dwight Brown]

The first time is a lot longer. About twice as long as making a normal violin. Once you have all the patterns made and the tools required you can go a lot faster.

 

Bruce

 

scroll back.JPG scroll side.JPG ribs.JPG c-bout.JPG

Bruce,  I am totally taken with your work. Bravissimo!

 

DLB

[Omobono]

The current issue of the Strad has the first of two articles on the Andrea Amati "King" cello which will be on display this summer at the Metropolitan Museum in New York. 

 

 

[Dwight Brown]

I just got the Andrea Amati book the other day.  Really great stuff.

 

DLB

[Stephen Churchill]

Also interesting is the source of the patterns.  The pattern for Strad's "Greffulhle" 1709 is clearly printed the 1567 "La vera Perfettione del disegno di varie sorti di ricami" as pointed out by Mr. Pollen's on page 274 in his latest book.  The title translates to (according to Google) "The true perfection of the design of various sorts of embroidery".  

 

Can the mastic stand bending, or was it carved, then bent and filled?

 

Cheers

Stephen

[Stephen Churchill]

Scraper can be dangerous because you can chip out small bits of filler or even maple in the rib and scroll designs and then you've got to do it again. In the end I preferred a sharp file with a finer one to finish up. For the curved areas little riffler files.

 

First comes the two rows of purfling and then the wood in between the two is chipped out for the inlay of the dots and lozenges. I put a little soap on the side of the purfling facing the central channel to avoid chipping out the purfling as well.

 

The dots and lozenges must be set in place and carefully lined up prior to gluing. That way you can't make a mistake. The you glue them in one by one. Tedious but not really that difficult.

 

Bruce

 

What material did you use for the dots and lozenges?  I am planning to try this (in the probably distant future) and was wondering if mother of pearl or Tagua Nuts (aka vegetable ivory) would work.  Mother of pearl might be too hard.  

[Bruce Carlson]

What material did you use for the dots and lozenges?  I am planning to try this (in the probably distant future) and was wondering if mother of pearl or Tagua Nuts (aka vegetable ivory) would work.  Mother of pearl might be too hard.  

At the time, 1978-1979, I used ivory. I don't think I would do that anymore. I haven't tried using Tagua nuts but I don't see why it wouldn't work. I had a drill made to cut out the round dots and the lozenges were cut from long strips made to the width of two parallel sides of the lozenge. I made a little jig of wood with the cutting angle the same as that of the lozenge so I could cut them off one after another.

 

I drew the design out by eye and just continued to correct it until I got it right. The rib is prepared flat and I used a pin-point to mark it out on the rib. One the guide ponts were there I finished the cutouts by eye. From drawing everything out over and over I already had the design in my head. On the Hellier there are only three different motifs on the ribs. All three are in the c-bout, 3 + 2 for the lower bout and 3 + 1 for the upper bout. The are all variants either flipped horizontally or vertically.

 

Afterwards the rib is bent. You have to remember where the rib goes concave or convex the design can change dimension and this has to be corrected before you apply the mastic.

 

Thanks to everyone for the compliments but someone else did it a lot better than I; many years ago.

 

Bruce

[Dwight Brown]

Bruce,

 

Thanks for the great information!  It is always wonderful to have someone who has been there and done that!

 

 

DLB

[not telling]

I find it almost surreal how much information is available on this site.  I was just watching Bruce Carlson on Two Gentlemen of Cremona, and then conversing with him here.  Maestronet is pretty good for that. 

[skiingfiddler]

I suppose if you want to speed up the decoration process, one can do what Herbert Axelrod had done to the Strad Marylebone cello in the last century, have a decal put on.  I assume the decal is a thin, clear film with the decoration printed onto the film, but am not sure.  If authenticity isn't a concern, then that works, too.  I wonder if the decal is easily removed or whether it's glued on, semi-permanently.

[Dwight Brown]

They did that to a preexisting Stad 'cello?  Isn't that kind of like putting tattoos on the Mona Lisa?

 

DLB

[skiingfiddler]

They did that to a preexisting Stad 'cello?  Isn't that kind of like putting tattoos on the Mona Lisa?

 

DLB

 Yes and possibly.

 

As of 1999, the cello was part of the Axelrod donation of a quartet of decorated Strads to the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC.  As far as I know, the quartet is still there. 

 

Axelrod wanted to donate a complete quartet of decorated Strads and had 2 decorated fiddles and a viola.  He lacked the decorated Strad cello.  So, he had the Marylebone, 1688, Stradivari cello decorated to complete the quartet. (Source: lecture at the Smithsonian at the 1999 VSA convention.)

 

I believe the cello is a cut down Stradivari.  The possible justification for adding the design on the ribs in the 20th century might be that the cello was already modified from its original form.  One might point out that If that's a legitimate justification for further appearance changes, a lot of old Italian instruments are candidates for further changes.