Famous and Historic Fractionals

[TunaDay]

Did any of the 16th, 17th, 18th, or even 19th century master luthiers make fractionals that would today be considered masterpieces ~ just smaller?  I've not seen references to named famous instruments played by children, like the ex-Young Midori or the ex-Young Sarah Chang or the ex-Young Yo-Yo Ma.  Did they simply have to wrestle with full-sized instruments when performing with major orchestras?  Thanks.

[uncle duke]

I saw a Strad 3/4 yesterday at another website, I con't know which one - a golden color.

[Dwight Brown]

I remember Chris Reunig's father as knowing lots about fractional instruments made by important makers.  He owned some when I was a student of his at Ithaca College 30 years ago.

 

 

DLB

[not telling]

This one isn't quite a fractional, but it's pretty great. Very early. It is also a great one for original varnish.

http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/Violins/AmatiViolinoPiccolo/3361ViolinoPiccolo.html

[nathan slobodkin]

Two child size Strads that I know of; the Aiglon and one other whose name I can't remember. I have also seen a 1/2 size by Camillus Camilli and another by F. Landolfi so they did make them but I think they are pretty rare.

[David Beard]

I assume that until recently almost everyone started with a full size violin?

[DGV]

I assume that until recently almost everyone started with a full size violin?

 

It depends on your definition of recent.

[Ron MacDonald]

Mozart's childhood violin is on display at his Birthplace in Salzburg.  It's about half size.

[James M. Jones]

From the National Music Museum, A brother's Amati, Piccolo violin  the placard, states that this is not a child's instrument , but was built to play the higher passages , sorry about the sideways photo. It's small but I don't know it's dimensions.  

[TunaDay]

Perhaps this could be a related question for contemporary luthiers ~ do you receive commissions on fractional instruments and, if so, do you use the patterns of famous larger instruments, and simply cut them down?  Or, is there a different architecture to a fractional instrument that would lead you to reengineer the design.  That would mean that a fractional is not a miniaturized full-size; rather, it is a unique design challenge.  Then, the natural question, if asked, would you accept a commission to build a quartet of fractional instruments, let's say a 3/4 sized quartet for an elementary school quartet?   It actually sounds like a fun project...

[Omobono]

The 1736 Belle Skinner (3/4) Strad at Yale qualify?

 

http://www.yale.edu/musicalinstruments/instruments/47001960_strings.htm

[Omobono]

1683 Cipriaini Potter might be another:

 

[Omobono]

Did Menuhin play a small Storioni as a child or am I getting confused?

(or was it a Grancino?)

[Will L]

Menuhin supposedly made his NY debut on his Grancino.  It was in 1927, and he was 12.  I don't know when he acquired it but he still owned it when he died.  I don't believe this violin was "fractional" though it was sort of narrow.  

[Bruce Carlson]

Two child size Strads that I know of; the Aiglon and one other whose name I can't remember. I have also seen a 1/2 size by Camillus Camilli and another by F. Landolfi so they did make them but I think they are pretty rare.

There's the "Gillott" Stradivari of 1720 and the "Fountaine" of 1712 are classified as dancemaster violins but because they are in the shape of a violin differentiates them from the "Clapisson" of 1717 which has an extremely narrow outline that we expect for a dancemaster or pochette. On that note, the 'del Gesù' of 1735 is spectacular with original neck and fingerboard and violin outline.

 

I have seen Lorenzo Storioni, Joseph Rocca, Tommaso Balestrieri, members of the Klotz family among others.

 

Bruce

[Janito]

On that note, the 'del Gesù' of 1735 is spectacular with original neck and fingerboard and violin outline.

 

Is that the 'Chardon'?

 

In photos, the neck of the Chardon looks disproportionately long compared to the body.  Is that an artifact?

[Bruce Carlson]

Is that the 'Chardon'?

 

In photos, the neck of the Chardon looks disproportionately long compared to the body.  Is that an artifact?

The question was whether or not it was a pochette. The neck is real all one piece with the scroll. Nailed to the rib and neck block with four nails.

 

What do you mean artifact?

[Janito]

The question was whether or not it was a pochette. The neck is real all one piece with the scroll. Nailed to the rib and neck block with four nails.

 

What do you mean artifact?

 

 

I meant an artifact of the photography, rather than artifact of the construction. 

 

From what you say, it is not a photographic artifact.

[Dwight Brown]

I wonder if some instruments that were built as violino piccolo (I think that's the right term?) originally we later used as fractional violins.

 

 

 

DLB

[baroquecello]

Violino piccolo was tuned a fifth(I think) higher. Monteverdi asks for two in Orfeo.

[captainhook]

Perhaps this could be a related question for contemporary luthiers ~ do you receive commissions on fractional instruments and, if so, do you use the patterns of famous larger instruments, and simply cut them down?  Or, is there a different architecture to a fractional instrument that would lead you to reengineer the design.  That would mean that a fractional is not a miniaturized full-size; rather, it is a unique design challenge.  Then, the natural question, if asked, would you accept a commission to build a quartet of fractional instruments, let's say a 3/4 sized quartet for an elementary school quartet?   It actually sounds like a fun project...

I had a commission a few years ago (actually my only commission) for a 3/4. Not for a child but for an adult professional. She wanted full size sound, so I guessed at some design factors and got lucky. I did not simply cut it down. And no, I would not accept a commission for a 3/4 or smaller quartet, partly because I don't make cellos of any size and partly because I don't target children. Most of them can find plenty of fractionals that will serve for the needed time at a fraction of the cost.

[Omobono]

What instrument is being played here? (Violino Piccolo?)

 

[Omobono]

Ah.... I see in the score the following:

 

 

[uncle duke]

Perhaps this could be a related question for contemporary luthiers ~ do you receive commissions on fractional instruments and, if so, do you use the patterns of famous larger instruments, and simply cut them down?  Or, is there a different architecture to a fractional instrument that would lead you to reengineer the design.  That would mean that a fractional is not a miniaturized full-size; rather, it is a unique design challenge.  Then, the natural question, if asked, would you accept a commission to build a quartet of fractional instruments, let's say a 3/4 sized quartet for an elementary school quartet?   It actually sounds like a fun project...

I can give you an answer from a contemporary hobbiest.  Using a pattern from famous instruments could work.  I would use the outline of said famous instruments to see where any changes need to be made pattern wise.  Bout widths and body lengths could be different from what I have laying around pattern wise.  Anything else I would just need 4/4 specs. and then procede to downsize figures for everything to 92.5% of the full size numbers.  92.5% is the 3/4 size as compared to 100%-4/4 {full size}.

 

A 3/4 size quartet would be suitable for 8 and 9 year olds.  Is that what you had in mind?

 

Now about these old Stradivaris' and the others undersized violins.  I can't tell if they are exactly 92.5% of the full size.

[Omobono]

This is supposedly Mozart's childhood violin in Salzburg.

Anyone been there?