Sam Zyg Vengerov Kreutzer Strad copy


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1 hour ago, Davide Sora said:

How do you know it is the copy by Zyg? Just curious, and to be sure before drawing conclusions after listening.:)

I think that's a fair question.

I do like the conductor's hair though, and would like to know what hair conditioner he uses. :)

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I noticed a huge percentage of the orchestra violinists using at least 2 fine tuners, and many with all 4.  I think I even saw my favorite Thomastik metal tailpiece in there too.

I didn't care much for the sound of the recording. 

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On 4/25/2015 at 8:57 AM, David Burgess said:

I guess Stradivari didn't. Maybe it got started around Vuillaume's time. Still, the Stradivari which Vuillaume apparently prized the most was very fresh.

The Messy seems to have been actually un-antiqued judging by pics of it taken around 1873

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23 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

I noticed a huge percentage of the orchestra violinists using at least 2 fine tuners, and many with all 4.  I think I even saw my favorite Thomastik metal tailpiece in there too.

I didn't care much for the sound of the recording. 

Vengerov also doesn't look in great shape, not one of his best performances, definitely.

When the sound isn't good it may not always be the violin's fault...:lol:

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2 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

The Messy seems to have been actually un-antiqued judging by pics of it taken around 1873

If you compare those early pics to recent blacklight images of the Messiah all of the chips are still there - perhaps with a bit more dirt in them but not signs of proper retouch

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3 hours ago, Davide Sora said:

How do you know it is the copy by Zyg? Just curious, and to be sure before drawing conclusions after listening.:)

All well made copies are the same, maybe it is from another luthier?:ph34r:

You can read the label at e.g. 7:44, pretty sure Stradivari’s first name wasn’t Samuel ;)

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2 hours ago, Davide Sora said:

Vengerov also doesn't look in great shape, not one of his best performances, definitely.

When the sound isn't good it may not always be the violin's fault...:lol:

I agree, for Vengerov it's a bit iffy ... I am sure he would not like to think that people are pulling his performance apart!

The violin has a curious sound to my ears, but it's a live recording so I would hesitate to make a judgment on the violin. What I'm hearing tonally is a bit lacking in complexity or coloration, and over-forceful in the upper-midrange, with a marked contrast between the E string (which is fantastic) and the other 3 strings. The forceful upper mid is potentially a feature of the recording, the lack of complexity is more likely intrinsic to the violin ...

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5 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

Do you know when the story of Tarisio having it and it being perfectly preserved dates from?

That’s an interesting question - Cozio made note of the sound post crack in his notes about it.

We know Tario raved about it, but wouldn’t show it to anyone, and that once Vuillaume got it, he didn’t show it off much prior to the 1872 Kensington Museum exhibit.

Vuillaume called it a “wonder of wonders” and “incomparable” - I’m not sure whether he said it was perfectly preserved...

 

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2 hours ago, Three13 said:

I’m not sure whether he said it was perfectly preserved...

I'm conflating many stories into one, I think, on second think.  At least these days it seems to be held up as being the best-preserved.  My line of thought was going to be it was super-restored and then a story was invented about how it was always that way.  I'm sure I'm behind though.    Didn't know it had a post crack.

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8 hours ago, Don Noon said:

I noticed a huge percentage of the orchestra violinists using at least 2 fine tuners, and many with all 4.  I think I even saw my favorite Thomastik metal tailpiece in there too.

It was the first thing I noticed too.  When I see a tuner on the A I think steel string, rightly or wrongly.  There was a time when steel string sets were common in orchestras, I was told by someone who should know. 

Otto Buchner used a tailpiece that looks like a Thomastic, and I think I've read he used a steel set, even being a Bach specialist.  One of my favorites

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46 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

I'm conflating many stories into one, I think, on second think.  At least these days it seems to be held up as being the best-preserved.  My line of thought was going to be it was super-restored and then a story was invented about how it was always that way.  I'm sure I'm behind though.    Didn't know it had a post crack.

I think the problem is that it's a story that's been told a lot, by a lot of people, some of whom (like Vuillaume) were unreliable narrators.

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14 hours ago, martin swan said:

I agree, for Vengerov it's a bit iffy ... I am sure he would not like to think that people are pulling his performance apart!

The violin has a curious sound to my ears, but it's a live recording so I would hesitate to make a judgment on the violin. What I'm hearing tonally is a bit lacking in complexity or coloration, and over-forceful in the upper-midrange, with a marked contrast between the E string (which is fantastic) and the other 3 strings. The forceful upper mid is potentially a feature of the recording, the lack of complexity is more likely intrinsic to the violin ...

Vengerov is a fantastic violinist, but even the best can have a bad day... :)

I share your impressions of the sound, also it seems to me that it struggles to get out of the violin. Of course it is only a recording, also compressed by youtube (low bitrate), so not very reliable to crucify or praise the characteristics of a violin. Even the miking seems unusual to me, microphone on the soloist positioned rather low and perhaps too on the side (is it a Schoeps?), and large diaphragm condenser microphones for the orchestra (seems like pretty cheap cardioid AKG C3000?).

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Assuming half-decent image quality, it’s actually not that hard to visually distinguish the Zyg and the Strad. He seems to use the Zyg fairly regularly. Some other examples below where he’s on better form. I think the main lesson to be learned is that you could give Vengerov a shoebox with rubber bands stretched across it and he would still sound like Vengerov :)

Zyg:

Strauss sonata https://youtu.be/nHl0XgqH_9I

Tchaikovsky/Mozart/Schubert https://youtu.be/2jJm54J5bdM

Mendelssohn concerto https://youtu.be/pf2N4w2w0Qk

Shostakovich concerto cadenza & 4th mvt (starts 4:17) https://youtu.be/3rHe3usxCPA

Strad:

Ravel Tzigane https://youtu.be/EUP87uvhjIs

Ernst Last Rose of Summer https://youtu.be/qqpM6sNjv5s

Kreisler Caprice Viennois https://youtu.be/_zvFLUF_coQ

Some other violin, don’t know what it is

Franck Sonata https://youtu.be/k--MAgR4oEw

Edited by AMG
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On 2/20/2021 at 10:04 PM, AMG said:

You can read the label at e.g. 7:44, pretty sure Stradivari’s first name wasn’t Samuel ;)

What acute eyesight, I had missed this detail!B)

These video shoots are relentless, I wonder if the concert program said he was playing with the usual Stradivari...:lol:

Thanks also for the detailed list of videos.

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