Sign in to follow this  
not telling

Wait...what?

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, arglebargle said:

And further (because I can never leave well enough alone), any negative condition (shoplifting, drug abuse, alcoholism, pedophilia) that can be ameliorated by simply refraining from the actions that cause that condition is NOT a disease. It is a compulsion. Compulsions can destroy lives, no doubt, but they are not diseases. 

This is where you are incorrect. Not a little bit, but entirely. You listed multiple aberrant behaviors that can be caused (not all, or even most instances) by mental illness. See DSM-5; it's downloadable for free from the intertubes. But in your prior post you listed conditions, which are not a disease or compulsion - like the difference between a sign and symptom - to justify your position, and then conflate that with guilt, Compulsions *can* be caused by developmental or gene expression defects (e.g., "hard-wired"). Brain mapping and gene expression studies show this, and especially the fact that some compulsions can be controlled with drugs (Tourette's, etc.).

I am not stating that a compulsion is what caused Ross's behavior; only a medical/neuro-psych exam would show that. http://jaapl.org/content/42/4/404 Nor am I even implying that if he has a demonstrable defect that he shouldn't be punished severely.  He violated the trust given him. 

But lack of understanding what causes certain behaviors in some individuals is what sets back mental health in this country by a good 50 years.

For people who have a true compulsion, the recidivism rate is very high...We need a better method.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If societal norms alone determine morality we're in trouble . I believe it is far more absolute than that . If we're only chemically evolved ooze than morality is a misnomer 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.omaha.com/news/crime/omaha-violin-teacher-who-molested-girl-sentenced-to-to-years/article_dc33106e-2434-51d0-a2a6-ab71f9b66d48.html

This is really a 2-year sentence, which could be stretched out if he's denied parole at that point.  If he constantly does stuff to earn himself solitary confinement, he might avoid some of the special attention other inmates will no doubt want to give him.  It's a bit of a quandary he now faces. It's going to be really hard time either way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Edward Byler said:

If societal norms alone determine morality we're in trouble . I believe it is far more absolute than that . If we're only chemically evolved ooze than morality is a misnomer 

I don't disagree.  The differentiation from the primordial slime and even from other homo species is what's the 64 thousand dollar question.  I certainly don't have the answers.

What is especially upsetting is that some "perps" (including music and clerical) have shown an abhorrent behavior pattern and with a slap on the wrist are allowed to continue in positions that put an unsuspecting vulnerable population at risk.

Rhetorical Questions:

There doesn't need to be a draconian solution for some minor offenses, but really, why put the perps back into a situation that enables that behavior? Are some populations more at risk or attractive to sexual abusers than others? Which are those, and why? (statistically speaking, not based on news)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, not telling said:

This is really a 2-year sentence, which could be stretched out if he's denied parole at that point.   It's a bit of a quandary he now faces. It's going to be really hard time either way.

It took me 2 1/2 years to make ten violins.  Now, like today thinking about it,  it seems that the time just flew by.

I remember my 13 year old girlfriends.  All I wanted to do back then was to dig through their fathers fishing tackle boxes.:ph34r: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, this is just the tip of the iceberg.  There is so much more to this and for some to suggest this is a disease, etc is completely ludicrous.  It is a criminal doing what a criminal does.  Most everyone here knows the history and how long this has been going on with this person.  As far as the jail time, according the an article in the paper today (http://www.omaha.com/news/crime/omaha-violin-teacher-who-molested-girl-sentenced-to-to-years/article_dc33106e-2434-51d0-a2a6-ab71f9b66d48.html ) there could be an appeal by the prosecutors to look at the sentence he received as being to easy on him.  In the mean time he is behind bars and hopefully all the harm he has done to many will stop.  I know first hand many makers, vendors, and customers who have fallen victim to him, and many more who do not know how they have been taken advantage of by this person.  Like with the shop in Chicago that was mentioned here about a month ago, there are instruments on consignment that those people need to make sure they are protected from what may be coming from this.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alex l. Reza said:

You know, this is just the tip of the iceberg.  There is so much more to this and for some to suggest this is a disease, etc is completely ludicrous.  It is a criminal doing what a criminal does.  Most everyone here knows the history and how long this has been going on with this person. 

 

This is a good point.  It is not just the cumpulsion but all of the other criminal behaviors that go along with the charges; he didnt just accidentally slip and wind up in prison.  The best thing we could do is forget the man existed entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a former Community College mathematics teacher working for the Nebraska Department of Corrections, I can assure readers that our state institutions, including the Omaha Correctional Facility, are true "prisons" -- punishing environments, not "white-collar country clubs." The few courses offered for a few inmates hardly offset the harsh reality of incarceration.

My work also allowed me to sit in on institutional review board hearings, with full access to inmate records. There I could see the difference between detailed legal descriptions of an event and public speculation based on newspaper descriptions. Furthermore, the details that come out in courtroom analysis versus the imagined actions based on a news report are only part of the "Rashomon Effect," which can almost never be fully comprehended, even when you personally know all the people involved.

Meanwhile, A. Cavallo Violins is now permanently closed, according to an email announcement I received. It might be good to close this discussion thread as well. 

ATTENTION: A. CAVALLO VIOLINS is Permanently Closed
 
A. Cavallo Violins would like to say "Thank You" to all of our past customers.
 
It is our desire that our customer's needs continue to be served at the highest possible level and with that in mind we would strongly recommend that you visit The Violin Shop in Lincoln.
 
Since 1982, The Violin Shop in Lincoln has been providing high quality rentals, expert repairs, rehairs, and sales... Second to None.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mat Roop said:

.pretty sad examples of human beings.

I hope so.  But they might be typical examples.  A couple of decades ago I read or heard that an insurance actuarial had done something in his spare time or as part of a study where he compared the arrest rates in certain professions to the rest of the population.  It seemed to show that a large percentage who choose to work around kids do it for that reason.  So keep a sharp eye out.  If it's true that people choose those jobs for sexual reasons, then wouldn't it apply to other professions as well?  Funeral directors,  animal handlers, sewer divers of Mexico City, use your imagination.  Hard to contemplate,  but nobody ever said humans aren't messed up or better yet just freakin evil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

A couple of decades ago I read or heard that an insurance actuarial had done something in his spare time or as part of a study where he compared the arrest rates in certain professions to the rest of the population.  It seemed to show that a large percentage who choose to work around kids do it for that reason.

This statement is a farce, and it does nothing but attempt to malign and cast suspicion on adults who work with children, the vast vast majority of whom are not pedophiles or abusers. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

George, I'm sure the majority are fine people.  You could do a rough estimation of the percentage that aren't like I heard was done.  Through grade school and high school years I never had a problem myself, but a counselor went to prison.  He was a good friend of our family and we had no clue so we were victimized in that sense.  Personally, now, I would start by viewing him with some degree of suspicion, which is not a bad thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

I'm sure the majority are fine people.

Bill, the fact is that only a very very tiny percentage of adults who work with children are ever suspected or charged with abuse. So if you want a rough estimation based on facts, it would be a very tiny percentage, not a "large percentage" as your original post stated. The vast majority are "fine people."

You need more evidence than "an insurance actuarial had done something in his spare time or as part of a study" that you "read or heard about" "a couple of decades ago." And I am sure that discovering that a family friend was an abuser in his position as counselor was traumatic, but please don't paint other adults who work with children with the same broad brush.

That's all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

George, I'm not accusing the innocent; I'm saying heighten your awareness.  If you think something's wrong with the study I mentioned then find your own.  But don't come to a conclusion before you do that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

George, I'm not accusing the innocent; I'm saying heighten your awareness.  If you think something's wrong with the study I mentioned then find your own.  But don't come to a conclusion before you do that. 

Perhaps you could post a link to the study and we can consider how authoritative it is. Otherwise it's kind of post truth ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do we have laws that would throw a man in jail for slapping the buttocks of an underage girl, and giving her alcohol? Maybe those acts seem trivial in themselves, without context. But what seems to have been missing from this whole thread is that the law is, of necessity, a clumsy instrument. The police can't read people's minds, so they can't determine intent.

Thus, the law prohibits certain acts not based on how severe those acts are in themselves, but as a means of preventing other acts.

If one is offering a young woman alcohol, and also trying to establish an... excessive familiarity... with her, a reasonable person would have legitimate reason to be concerned that the possible intent is to gradually desensitize her so that she would ultimately willingly engage in sexual acts to which she is not legally qualified to consent.

That is why his actions ten years ago were considered serious enough to have him designated as a sex offender, and that is why even though this time the court didn't find the allegation of penetration to be proven, thus finding him only guilty of attempted first-degree sexual assault, it was enough to sentence him to five years of hard time.

And this sort of thing is always unsettling. If they're going to let him out of jail after five years - or two - it would be nice if we could hope that he would be unlikely to re-offend after his release. Either locking him up and throwing away the key - or curing any psychiatric disorder that is contributing to his actions - would be constructive steps.

I don't claim to know the answer to the philosophical question of "free will", but as innocent people are more valuable to society than aggressors, and if we were just machines, so that right and wrong had no meaning, then punishing criminals to make society function more smoothly is one of the things that wouldn't be "wrong", so I don't think we need to have an answer to that question in order to punish crime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can tell you that as a classmate of his he was assaulting fellow students back when he was a student at the  University of Michigan, including my girlfriend. He is a life-long predator.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/24/2019 at 4:05 AM, David Dyer said:

I can tell you that as a classmate of his he was assaulting fellow students back when he was a student at the  University of Michigan, including my girlfriend. He is a life-long predator.

Criminals are opportunistic and seldom if ever change.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.