Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

Tarisio New York May


Omobono
 Share

Recommended Posts

I've always had a maxim NEVER to buy a bow that I haven't inspected personally. There are so many little things that can be wrong about a bow that can make it worthless to play and impossible to sell that DO NOT turn up in condition reports, like a slight twist in the alignment of the head and frog, or shakes, knots and grain checks, not to mention playing quircks like a "wiggle" in the middle, that it can be very dangerous to buy just on description and photos.

 

That said, I have done it, since I'm not nearly as smart as I think I am. When I have, it was for a bow that just looked too good in the photos, I had a little extra cash after getting what I wanted in the sale, and the prices seemed so low that I thought "what can I lose?" The first time I did it, the bow arrived looking just as beautiful at the head and frog as the auction photos, but it had a huge open spiralling "grain flaw," running for about half the bow's length. That's why the bow was so cheap at the auction! In the end, the bow was fine for playing and the check was stable, but try convincing a player to buy a bow like that! I swore after that I'd never do it again, but I have, three times. The second turned out great and is one of the bows I use regularly, but that was a lucky score. It was listed as a "probable Kaston," and was going so cheaply because it seems the aura of a "demoted Tourte" was keeping bidders away. The third one I bought simply for the hardware, as it had a button I thought I could use for a better bow. It turned out to be a good playing bow, and one of my students got it very cheaply. The latest one is a bit like the first, although the biggest problem is in the frog, not the stick. In the end nos. 1 and 4 were the only disappointments, but I didn't actually lose money on them as I simply put them back up for sale at the same auction house, and got back what I paid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 136
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Pierre Guillaume is one of the world's leading authorities on French bows. His work as a maker is exquisite -  I think you'll like this bow!

For $1000 it's a bargain ...

I picked mine up as a part exchange for an instrument I sold.

Head is obviously typical.

I agree, all things being equal, a bargain!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

If you espouse the notion that there is only one bow out there for you, and that you must feel a deep and immediate communion of the soul between you and the bow of your dreams, then I wouldn't buy it. However, if you've done some research on this maker and are prepared to acknowledge that he may know more about bows than you do, and if you're prepared to spend more than 5 minutes adapting your technique to something slightly unfamiliar, I think you'll like this bow!

For $1000 it's a bargain ...

 

 

 

 

I espouse no such notion.  However, as a player, I know that some equipment works, and some doesn't.  I've played on expensive instruments that I thought sounded like crap, and I've played $5,000 cellos I'd love to have.  Similarly bows.  I'm thoroughly prepared to acknowledge that Pierre knows more than me about  the makings of a bow, but then that doesn't distinguish him from almost everyone on MN.  

Perhaps if you have the expertise of a dealer, this bow sounds like a bargain.  To a serious player, its value is as I stated before:  exactly zero.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK

Imagine all the viola bows in the world which function well, produce a good sound, look OK, and which you could adapt to if necessary ... what would be the price you would pay for one of those bows, chosen for you at random?

Imagine the bow which would perfectly suit your instrument, your temperament, your particular technique, your aesthetic sensibility, your sense of history, your ego - and which would withstand the withering scorn of your peers! What price would you pay for that bow?

The difference between the two prices is called 'the violin trade'.

 

Sorry Rue, didn't see you'd posted.

Yes, bow value is determined in the same way as violin value - it reflects antique value, quality of workmanship, condition and provenance, but doesn't reflect how well it functions as a tool for making music (except in a mythical sense). 

However, there's not quite so much mythology about the superiority of older bows, or quite so much prejudice against new bows. 

 

Ironically, I would buy a Pierre Guillaume blind without any hesitation, since I know it will meet a minimum level of playability. I would never buy a great 19th century French bow blind, for fear that it might have the playing properties of cooked spaghetti.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To a certain extent I think selecting instruments and bows gets a bit touchy-feely for me.  A little too much mystery and not enough "good enough".  I have known people who have spent a great deal of time and emotional energy on picking out equipment. I have just taken the other tack  and as far as I am concerned it has generally worked out very well.  nobody says I have to own a particular bow or instrument forever, and who knows my taste may change or ,god forbid, I could improve!  The violin I play on most of the time now was a singleton sent out to me by a big fancy shop.  This particular time I had an idea that I wanted a violin by a particular maker that I liked and I wanted to try one (Tetsuo Matsuda)  They sent it, I liked it, I paid for it.  The violin before this I looked at lots of instruments, I ended up not liking it after a while - go figure.  My best violin bow was made by my high school friend David Samuels and he sent it to me to try and it has been with me ever since, another is a Doug Raguse that I bought unseen at Auction that I also like a great deal.  I guess I have gotten a lot  less emotional about buying instruments as I am finally in a position to indulge myself a bit.  I am never going to have a great Italian anything but I can have wonderful modern instruments and bows and commission some of the same from living makers.

 

I am not saying mine is the right way or the only way, but it works for me.  Will I make mistakes, and regret some purchases, undoubtably, but that's part of the adventure for me.  I am sure I have screwed up other stuff as well.

 

Best,

 

DLB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is "bow value" a myth?

In a master class, Pinchas Zukerman, when asked about the bow he was using, has a rather dismissive and flippant comment to the effect:

"I don't have expensive bows. Hey if I have $70K I buy a house."

(He said, in fact, he has in his case a couple of of Lee Guthrie bows and something he picked up in a pawn shop).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In a master class, Pinchas Zukerman, when asked about the bow he was using, has a rather dismissive and flippant comment to the effect:

"I don't have expensive bows. Hey if I have $70K I buy a house."

(He said, in fact, he has in his case a couple of of Lee Guthrie bows and something he picked up in a pawn shop).

FWIW, while on a trip this week, I wandered into a local music shop and, on a whim, tried a truly skanky looking $150 Markie on display, playing it with a bow picked up at random.  It was superb, and nearly blew us out of the shop as far as projection goes, too. Somebody's gonna get a couple bargains there.   Acoustic gold is where you find it.  :lol: .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW, while on a trip this week, I wandered into a local music shop and, on a whim, tried a truly skanky looking $150 Markie on display, playing it with a bow picked up at random.  It was superb, and nearly blew us out of the shop as far as projection goes, too. Somebody's gonna get a couple bargains there.   Acoustic gold is where you find it.  :lol: .

Hard to pick up on the audio but sounds like Zukerman says the pawn store bow was a 'Maire' badly split and repaired,

so not exactly bad material to start with..........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While we're on the topic of bows I should say I've seen beautiful work out of Brazil.  I'm not qualified to speak to quality of materials, etc., but I liked the playing ability of one in particular, and ended up buying two of the same maker (one of which I subsequently put back up for sale).  A lot of players are of the opinion that old French bows are too light in character, and not always suitable for modern playing in big halls.  My Fetique sounds wonderful, and feels just like an extension of my hand, and yet for Strauss tone poems and such, I prefer the Chagas, which I bought for an embarrassingly low sum.  And I tried it out extensively before any money changed hands.

Just recently I found another Brazilian bow that was so beautiful I really, really wanted it to work.  Unfortunately, it just didn't, and I returned it to the shop.  I think the modern makers are listening to players' needs, and working accordingly.  I would not be surprised if Brazilian work skyrocketed in value in my lifetime.  The old stuff can be gorgeous, but it doesn't always work as it should for everyone, and in my lifetime they've become tres expensif.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 The old stuff can be gorgeous, but it doesn't always work as it should for everyone, and in my lifetime they've become tres expensif.

Be sad to see them become the domain of collectors and museums.

There was a time when a good bow was thrown in with the price of a fine instrument.

I doubt that would happen these days.

Still, good news for modern artisans!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Be sad to see them become the domain of collectors and museums.

There was a time when a good bow was thrown in with the price of a fine instrument.

I doubt that would happen these days.

Still, good news for modern artisans!

Ah yes, the good ole' days! That happened to me as a kid in one of the Philly shops.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Be sad to see them become the domain of collectors and museums.

There was a time when a good bow was thrown in with the price of a fine instrument.

I doubt that would happen these days.

Still, good news for modern artisans!

 

I had a professional colleague, now unfortunately deceased, who always loved to brag to me about having paid $2,200 for his tortoise/gold Simon cello bow.  Last I heard, it was bought at Bein & Fushi for $75,000

 

For the past forty years we've all been saying the prices are sky high, they can't possibly go higher.  And then they go higher.  Ever increasing demand + dwindling supply = higher and higher prices!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a professional colleague, now unfortunately deceased, who always loved to brag to me about having paid $2,200 for his tortoise/gold Simon cello bow.  Last I heard, it was bought at Bein & Fushi for $75,000

 

For the past forty years we've all been saying the prices are sky high, they can't possibly go higher.  And then they go higher.  Ever increasing demand + dwindling supply = higher and higher prices!

If I had a $75.000 bow I think it would be a drag to be relegated to just looking at it every once in a while instead of using it religiously everyday for playing enjoyment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a professional colleague, now unfortunately deceased, who always loved to brag to me about having paid $2,200 for his tortoise/gold Simon cello bow.  Last I heard, it was bought at Bein & Fushi for $75,000

 

Co-incidence. I knew a cellists who also had a Simon bow and loved it. I presume she still has it.

I don't recall that it was tortoiseshell mounted.

Doubt she paid anything like that for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I had a $75.000 bow I think it would be a drag to be relegated to just looking at it every once in a while instead of using it religiously everyday for playing enjoyment.

 

The bow was bought by one of the most famous of modern-day cellists.  Not only does he use it every day, but he can well afford it, too! (and I'm sure he appreciated the tax deduction...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

short reviews for some highlighted violins in SF public viewing. 

 

273 A. Guarneri: I was shocked it was not as good as I expected. I don't even think it belongs to the price range. 

270 Cordano: As described, a very good one. However the starting bid is already history high. 

268: JBV: Not impressed. Is this a baked violin?

274: Pressenda: I think this one is the king of the auction. However never had chance to touch it. There was a guy trying to compare 274 and 275 for hours.  

 

 

It's a pity they didn't show 262 in SF. I am quite convinced it is a Landofi violin by the picture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For bows I just quickly scanned through. I only picked what I am interested and forgot unimpressive ones (also very expensive ones).

The JJ Martin's bows are very nice (156 and 157). The Vorin's(152) is just not for me. It feels light.

 

I didn't get the chance to try Sartory, Simon, and Kittel. There was a lady trying them. I guess she is a violinist of SF Symphony. Looked like everybody knows her. It was a pleasure listening to her music.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried the Kittel and Simon - thought they were good.  I really enjoyed playing the kittel.  It felt like a really good bow, but unsure if the estimate will prove accurate?  Everyone was going gaga over the Strad, and it sounded really nice, but there were two outstanding players, one in a professional quartet, who were doing most of the playing.  I took lots of snaps - of the violins - not the players, will post later if I have the time.

 

The Vuillaume was very interesting.  I am not sure how to describe the sound.  The G was extremely resonant.  To me it sounded unpleasant under the ear.  But listening to someone else play it, the sound was extremely rich, deep and quite wonderful.  I was less impressed with how it looked: overly french polished, and quite a few repairs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...