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Carbon fibre violin wins award!

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We knew. :) It's an "Industry award". Awards we give ourselves to promote our wares. I've seen and heard CF violins and they were plain and simply ridiculous - incredibly remote tone-wise from normal violins .  There MIGHT be some space for cellos and d/basses.

 

Judging from the limited number of videos "showcasing" the mezzo-forte, I have to agree with your sentiment.  They sound terrible.  The Mezzo-Forte and Luis and Clark celli seem to sound somewhat more natural.  I have yet heard a CF bass though.

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Judging from the limited number of videos "showcasing" the mezzo-forte, I have to agree with your sentiment.  They sound terrible.  The Mezzo-Forte and Luis and Clark celli seem to sound somewhat more natural.  I have yet heard a CF bass though.

 

I heard a cello on some recording from a competition and it was OK - one wouldn't run away from it :). I think d/basses will be close enough. We'll have to see if sophisticated players embrace this new (?) technology. I'm at a loss in figuring out what problem it solves. :)

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I heard a cello on some recording from a competition and it was OK - one wouldn't run away from it :). I think d/basses will be close enough. We'll have to see if sophisticated players embrace this new (?) technology. I'm at a loss in figuring out what problem it solves. :)

 

It solves the problem of having to deal with fluctuating humidity and accidental knocks and drops. :)   Also great for playing outdoors.  I suppose one can also check it as a piece of luggage on a flight.  I think Luis did that for his cello.

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Too bad Curtin/Fritz didn't have one in their testing.

 

I agree that the few video comparisons I have found do not seem to show that CF pose any tonal challenge to good wood, at least in violins.

 

It might solve the problem of how to cook bulk popcorn when you're on a trip with your CF fiddle.

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The problem with the CF violins I have heard on videos is that they seem to ring forever and not have enough depth/complexity to the sound.

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I wonder how a CF violin with a spruce top would do?  Kind of like an ovation guitar?  I remember reading about the guitar make Torres making a paper mache guitar with a spruce top and it sounded OK.

 

 

Hybrid ?

 

 

DLB

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I wonder how a CF violin with a spruce top would do?  Kind of like an ovation guitar?  I remember reading about the guitar make Torres making a paper mache guitar with a spruce top and it sounded OK.

 

 

Hybrid ?

 

 

DLB

A Cf violin with a spruce top would be better; and a CF violin made with a spruce top and maple back, ribs, and neck would be better yet.   :)

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I wonder how a CF violin with a spruce top would do?  Kind of like an ovation guitar?  I remember reading about the guitar make Torres making a paper mache guitar with a spruce top and it sounded OK.

 

 

Hybrid ?

 

 

DLB

 

I've seen that guitar in the museum. Sort of paper mache, mixture of that and wood fillets. Poster board might be closer.

 

Anyway I rather like the idea of some musical instruments being made from wood. You know, plant a seed and let the wind, rain and the sun get on with things. Doesn't cost much until the tree is commercialised and trees do relatively little harm. Occasionally one comes down on some poor soul who happens to be in his car. They more than offset this crime by taking in CO2 and pumping out Oxygen. Oh and birds and insects like them.

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Would it be possible to make a violin from something like carbon-fiber reinforced bakelite?

 

There were electric (steel) guitars made from bakelite which sound quite good (e.g. the Rickenbacher [sic] Model B ).

 

In addition to that, bakelite has good ageing resistance.

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CF Violins sounds better than Electric violins, but far worse than Acoustic wooden violins. From the videos Ive listened to atleast.

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I wonder if there was a hypothetical CF violin that was completely superior in every way than any "normal" violin if it would become accepted?  Violins are not skis. tennis rackets , or fly rods. There is a certain link with the past that we all love.

 

I can't really come up with a parallel from my experience, perhaps contrapuntal composed by a computer or art by committee. Perhaps photography as opposed to painting.

 

DLB

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I wonder if there was a hypothetical CF violin that was completely superior in every way than any "normal" violin if it would become accepted?  Violins are not skis. tennis rackets , or fly rods. There is a certain link with the past that we all love.

 

I can't really come up with a parallel from my experience, perhaps contrapuntal composed by a computer or art by committee. Perhaps photography as opposed to painting.

 

DLB

 

I don't need a CF violin superior in every way to a wood violin.  If there is a CF violin for < $2000 that gives me buttery smooth pp to growly ff with incredibly quick response and complexity of sound, I would probably buy one in a heart beat.  Such a violin is useful, for example, in cramped space (such as jampacked orchestral pits), stage flooded with spot lights, outdoors, and group lessons for kids.

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Well, what is it about carbon fiber might a luthier be concerned with?

 

Some features are: lightweight (low density), high stiffness, no or

minimal realignment with time under tension, different resonance properties

than wood.

 

So rather than thinking about building plates out of the stuff,

maybe we should be thinking about what parts of the instrument

could benefit, in part, from some of its properties. That is

what guitar builders have done, with some very impressive results.

 

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I heard a cello on some recording from a competition and it was OK - one wouldn't run away from it :). I think d/basses will be close enough. We'll have to see if sophisticated players embrace this new (?) technology. I'm at a loss in figuring out what problem it solves. :)

It makes it easier to mass-produce at least usable violins for poor children. 

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  It's an "Industry award". Awards we give ourselves to promote our wares.

There ya go. To understand the significance of an award, one needs to look at the context. If one wins an award for a violin at the local county fair in the combined violin-making a chili-cooking category, does it mean anything?

 

We gave some gold medals for factory instruments at the Moscow Competition. Why? Because factory instrument were a separate category, judged in the context of factory instruments. Someone who didn't know that might think that the factory instruments were every bit as good as the hand-made instruments which won gold medals.

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Well, what is it about carbon fiber might a luthier be concerned with?

 

Some features are: lightweight (low density), high stiffness, no or

minimal realignment with time under tension, different resonance properties

than wood.

 

Carbon fiber isn't low density, compared to wood.  It does have impressive modulus and stability, so perhaps reinforcements for the neck or bass bar would be reasonable, or fingerboard.  If you could find some nanobots to construct a violin plate with microscopic cells out of CF, matching the density of spruce, then you might have something very interesting.

 

I have a piece of carbon fiber suitable for making a tailpiece. It weighs 20% more than the same sized blank of boxwood.

 

Is that some special air-filled material?  Most CF is about twice the density of ebony, or even more.

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Carbon fiber isn't low density, compared to wood.  It does have impressive modulus and stability, so perhaps reinforcements for the neck or bass bar would be reasonable, or fingerboard.  If you could find some nanobots to construct a violin plate with microscopic cells out of CF, matching the density of spruce, then you might have something very interesting.

 

 

Is that some special air-filled material?  Most CF is about twice the density of ebony, or even more.

Maybe a simple shell model is sufficient to get 90% there.  Ignore sheer from internal thicknesses,  and even perhaps not need to consider the different elastic modulae in the two surface directions.

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Composite CF polymers (e.g. carbon fibers polymerized with epoxy) have

extremely high strength to weight ratios, usually nonisotropic strength,

depending on orientation of the fibers. Hence their widespread use

in aerospace (e.g. Boeing's Dreamliner), high performance racecars, sporting

equipment, etc.

The bottom line is greater strength, at the "cost" of less total weight.

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