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Posted

Dave, if a bow breaks there wasn't enough skill present.  Maybe past experience and knowledge but not skill.  

 

Suppose that could be argued, but some materials hide fatal flaws (especially bow wood) pretty well.  

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Posted

Suppose that could be argued, but some materials hide fatal flaws (especially bow wood) pretty well.  

Yes Jeffrey, even if it were to be me to break the bow.  I thought, no excuse would work.  But a fatal flaw in the wood? Why me?

Posted

Jeffrey and David,  I noticed nobody else really commented about repair prices being too high or to cheap.  It tells me everything is fair as far as repairs go. 

 

$40/hr for fine work? A friend who does restoration as a self-employed workman after a couple of decades in a fine, high-end shop charges me more than that as a wholesale rate!

 

And I am happy to pay it.

 

The person who does bow restoration for me won't re-camber a bow for less than $300. Why? Ever break one bending it? 

 

His work is not cheap and, again, I am happy to pay it.

How do you know he won't recamber a bow for less than $300. because he'll lose camber first time around.   there's all kind of reasons for a $300. price.    

Posted

There are many different schools of thought out there...along with many different 'value points'...and we each have our own individual take on things, so I'm not surprised.

 

When I started playing the violin in our community orchestra  I was a little take aback that quite a few people really didn't think about, or be interested in, their equipment at all.

 

It also happens with the bassoon.  But there is just less 'stuff' going on with the bassoon.

 

For example; If a violin played...it was considered good enough.  Several didn't even know you could rehair a bow, or that strings should be changed out more often than 'when they break'.  Others spent a lot of money on instruments of questionable parentage - thinking they had/have a sound investment.  One young woman bought a $50 violin package...just to get the case - that she needed for her 'good' violin. 

 

Fiddle players also have quite a distinctly different set of values I've found.  Especially beginners. 

Admittedly, this was me for a long time. When I went through school playing the violin, for some reason, I always thought of any flaw or shortcoming of the playing a result of my actual skill, and didn't put much thought into how it might be affected by the instrument itself, strings, rosin, bow, etc. I played on a cheapo mass-produced beginner's violin for a few years, and I practically wince to think back on it. It was a whole lot of effort for not very high a quality of sound. Once I got into high school and we moved to an area with a more competitive orchestra, I was fortunate enough to be able to play my dad's Glass violin and have been ever since. The difference in sound, and ease of playing was just night and day... but I guess I was so blown away that I forgot to think that anything might be holding me, or the Glass, back. Being a broke student didn't help either -- just the cost of a bow rehair at the time was probably enough to give me an ulcer. Now though, things are different, and I'm glad that I'm finally able to put a little bit more thought into what works with the violin -- the bow, and some better rosin and strings.

Although I'm not a professional by any means, I play both traditional ("classical") violin and fiddle, so it is important to me to be able to go between the extremes of both styles of playing. :)

 

BTW: From the description I would *assume* that the bow that is the subject of the discussion was made for (supplied to) the Grimm shop in Berlin (by whom, I don't know) sometime after 1890 (Germany export stamp).  If my memory serves, the Carl Grimm business was carried on by his son and his daughter's husband after his death.

Jeffrey -- thank you so much for the information! I was able to scrape up a little info online about the Grimm shop, but had a hard time telling anything about what time period was relevant or what info was really specific to the bow I picked up, so this helps a lot. :) It does have two clear stamps ("Grimm" and "Germany") although there is a small and more rough, hand-carved looking "V" on the underside of the stick, near the frog and not too far from the "Germany" stamp that is a total mystery.

 

Rynthae,

 

The bottom line is that you are the potential paying customer and weren't happy with the shop.  That is reason enough not to deal with them.  No further explanations to yourself or others are needed.  If the postings on this thread had been 100% in the shop's favor, I still think you did the right thing in not using a shop you weren't comfortable with.

 

What the shop's side of the story is, we who weren't there simply can't know.

 

I'm glad the shop gave you a clear, detailed quote with clear prices so that you could make up you own mind about using the shop.  That sounds like an fair way of doing business.  With that information, you were able to comparison shop, something always worth doing.

That's true -- I am glad that they were upfront with me about the prices in order to save me grief or confusion. Ultimately, I do feel a lot better having sent it to someone I really trust the work on it in the long run, also. :)

Posted

 sure I can r/r a transmission in 30 min.

Bet you can't do it on a C5 (or newer) Corvette. :lol:

 

Even all cars are not the same.

 

Here's where you are, about 25% of the way through the job, maybe three hours in, if you're really good and have done it a number of times before.

 

rear.jpg

Posted

Jeffrey and David,  I noticed nobody else really commented about repair prices being too high or to cheap.  It tells me everything is fair as far as repairs go. 

 

How do you know he won't recamber a bow for less than $300. because he'll lose camber first time around.   there's all kind of reasons for a $300. price.    

 

Uncle Duke,

 

Please forgive my pointed question.  I'd like some clarification.  I'm trying to figure out whether you are genuinely curious, or simply enjoy "stirring the pot."  If it's the latter, I wish you the best of luck to you - you'll find ample discussion and egos to satisfy your needs.  If it's the former I'm having difficulty getting past your tone and candor.  Perhaps that is just the difficulty inherent with internet discussion boards.  In regards to your above statement, I believe Jeff already commented on it:

 

Some counterpoint:

 

1) Sure.  Local economy has bearing on what a shop can charge for work... especially true if they are reliant on local work.  Relatively cheap travel and shipping has made many of us less reliant on said work.  The other factor is what kind of work and the infrastructure needed to safely accomplish that work.  Top end work requires some significant time and money investments and commitments.  If a person trains, follows through in an organized shop for further training, attends outside training, buys appropriate insurance to cover all the client's property in the shop, installs an alarm system, tools the shop properly, pays taxes, has a website built, etc., the cost of doing business is certainly much higher than going to a year or two year training program, popping out a shingle and taking in what comes

 

The better the instruments or bows one works on, the higher the bar.  While the price for a service performed by a top gun can seem expensive if considering their services for an inexpensive piece, the picture (and the demands) change when a 6 or 7 figure investment is at stake.  

 

 

 

Jerry

Posted

To the OP:

 

Unfortunately, Gainesville is four hours from Naples.  But, if you ever are headed north, I recommend you meet David Forbes.  I've never had a bad rehair.

 

To Jeffrey:

 

Luthiers are highly skilled and their skills are highly specialized.  Artistry and instinct and experience are expensive qualities.

 

$40/hr seems on the low end to me.  Here's my guess:

 

Of qualified luthiers:

  • Low end: $40/hr
  • Average: $75-$150/hr
  • High end: $400-$500/hr

At the high end, I imagine you are paying for skill, reputation, and high overhead costs.

Posted

Uncle Duke,

 

Please forgive my pointed question.  I'd like some clarification.  I'm trying to figure out whether you are genuinely curious, or simply enjoy "stirring the pot."  If it's the latter, I wish you the best of luck to you - you'll find ample discussion and egos to satisfy your needs.  If it's the former I'm having difficulty getting past your tone and candor.  Perhaps that is just the difficulty inherent with internet discussion boards.  In regards to your above statement, I believe Jeff already commented on it:

 

 

Jerry

If I remember right Jerry it was DGV who brought up the violin repair/ auto repair comparison.  Jeffrey asked for an opinion from me about what I think violin sound means to me more or less.  I gave "off the cuff" thoughts about what I thought at the time.  Think about it, you guys enlighten this younger generation with a violin you'll be better off.  You may have the best product in the world but if nobody knows you have it they won't call.  Then I gave an opinion about $40.00 shop rate.  I first thought $60-70 per hr, but why post that.  It's easier to write $40.  Now, a person earlier today mentioned  $40.00 and BMW's.  He was trying to blow smoke up whoever was reading/watching.  Low and behold Uncle Duke {myself} was present at the time and I couldn't resist.  I haven't seen him the rest of the day.  If he would of mentioned another make of car who knows which way this day would of went..  Jerry, if you go back and read everything posted today, it may make sense to what I'm saying here.  But why waste your time.  FYI - the BMW tranny does come out that easily.    

Posted

Bet you can't do it on a C5 (or newer) Corvette. :lol:

 

Even all cars are not the same.

 

Here's where you are, about 25% of the way through the job, maybe three hours in, if you're really good and have done it a number of times before.

 

rear.jpg

So what's your point Mr. Burgess?

Posted

I suggest this poster get some remodeling done and take a look at the estimates and the wide price variations for different companies bidding on the same job.

 

My take on this is that the guy didn't want to do the job so he threw out a high figure.

 

I used to think this was a "bad" thing to do, but then after you be nice an honest with xamount of people and tell them you're not interested for whatever reason, and then get some of the attitude and lip for being honest, pretty soon highballing just becomes the easy way out..

 

"ya uh, 5k"..

"what?, the other guy only wants 1k"

"boy, that sure is a deal, I'd jump on it if I were you"

Posted

If I remember right Jerry it was DGV who brought up the violin repair/ auto repair comparison.  Jeffrey asked for an opinion from me about what I think violin sound means to me more or less.  I gave "off the cuff" thoughts about what I thought at the time.  Think about it, you guys enlighten this younger generation with a violin you'll be better off.  You may have the best product in the world but if nobody knows you have it they won't call.  Then I gave an opinion about $40.00 shop rate.  I first thought $60-70 per hr, but why post that.  It's easier to write $40.  Now, a person earlier today mentioned  $40.00 and BMW's.  He was trying to blow smoke up whoever was reading/watching.  Low and behold Uncle Duke {myself} was present at the time and I couldn't resist.  I haven't seen him the rest of the day.  If he would of mentioned another make of car who knows which way this day would of went..  Jerry, if you go back and read everything posted today, it may make sense to what I'm saying here.  But why waste your time.  FYI - the BMW tranny does come out that easily.

Thank you Uncle Duke.  You have ultimately succeeded in answering my pointed question. 

Posted

So what's your point Mr. Burgess?

 

Bet you can't do it on a C5 (or newer) Corvette. :lol:

 

Even all cars are not the same.

 

Here's where you are, about 25% of the way through the job, maybe three hours in, if you're really good and have done it a number of times before.

 

rear.jpg

I do have some open shop time at this time.  If you can send everything I'll see what I can do.  With my low, low hourly shop rate I'll only be able to pay you a 2% commission for your troubles.  How's that?

Seriously speaking now Dave-  that crack in the driveway there will enable water to penetrate.  Over time,  the bottom will start falling out, the most serious will be from the crack  to the seam where it meets the garage.  I've seen the bad ones sink 5 inches at the garage door.  Since there's a slop going the other way it's just a matter of time before the water makes its path underneath to the street.  Not to mention if there are cracks already on the garage floor.  The extremes I just mentioned will be reached in 15-20 years.  I hope this isn't your driveway.    

Posted

 

Seriously speaking now Dave-  that crack in the driveway there will enable water to penetrate.  Over time,  the bottom will start falling out, the most serious will be from the crack  to the seam where it meets the garage.  I've seen the bad ones sink 5 inches at the garage door.  Since there's a slop going the other way it's just a matter of time before the water makes its path underneath to the street.

Most of that would depend on subsurface prep, wouldn't it. Erosion beneath the slab is seldom a problem with proper prep.

A bigger problem with unsealed cracks, around here, is freeze-thaw cycles.

 

When slab recession does occur, a popular remedy is "mud-jacking", where they drill a hole, and pump pressurized mortar underneath to raise the slab back to its former level.

Posted

For a 5 speed trans. it's more work pulling the car around and putting it on the rack than the removal process.

Removal process- yank drive line, remove trans. mount nuts, remove 4 bell housing bolts.  Disconnect shifter before getting out of car.  10 minutes,  if you're good.  The real challenge is Benz and Cadillac double row timing chains.

 

... and the engine together with the transmission will fall backwards, on your head if you are unlucky enough and will cause massive damage in the engine compartment, firewall etc . There are way more bolts on the bellhousing, you absolutely can't "yank" the drive line, the shifter disconnects from UNDER the car, starter motor and clutch hydraulics need to come off. Just to remove the starter you need to remove a crap load of things around and including the throttle housing. 2 ( 4 on some ) M12 Torx screws on the bellhausing can not be seen and require almost 1m of extension. If the socket slips and strips the splines the only option becomes removing the engine and transmission together by lifting up at an angle.

 

Which is what a pro will do in the first place. You are lecturing us a bit too much...

Posted

Sub-surface:   A couple of weeks before it's time for the garage floor loads of dirt and gravel, mostly dirt, are brought in with a bobcat and leveled out.  After that a garden hose from the basement or other water source is turned on to settle the dirt.  Then more gravel and rebar.  Then it's concrete time.  Drive-way can be right after or several weeks down the road. 

Posted

That reminds me...our gravel (sandy) driveway has some major potholes (and humps)...I need to find someone with a Bobcat?  Or do I need something else to level things out a bit?

Posted

Most of that would depend on subsurface prep, wouldn't it. Erosion beneath the slab is seldom a problem with proper prep.

A bigger problem with unsealed cracks, around here, is freeze-thaw cycles.

 

When slab recession does occur, a popular remedy is "mud-jacking", where they drill a hole, and pump pressurized mortar underneath to raise the slab back to its former level.

Well, for what its worth I was just joking around, takes a certain kinda guy to criticize another mans concrete slab, but, that being said, the latest fix for this is to use a special expansion foam now instead of the mortar.

Posted

That reminds me...our gravel (sandy) driveway has some major potholes (and humps)...I need to find someone with a Bobcat?  Or do I need something else to level things out a bit?

It can be done by hand with fill material and re leveled using a rake and shovel. Unless its huge, then ya, you need a bobcat.

Posted

Sub-surface:   A couple of weeks before it's time for the garage floor loads of dirt and gravel, mostly dirt, are brought in with a bobcat and leveled out.  After that a garden hose from the basement or other water source is turned on to settle the dirt.  Then more gravel and rebar.

If I wanted it done right, I'd probably have the sub-surface compacted before the rebar goes in. ;)

 

Some slabs around here are done without rebar or mesh though. Expansion of the steel from rusting upon exposure to saltwater will break up the concrete.

Posted

Repair shop prices and strategies---> the integrity of David Burgess' driveway on blast. That's great.

Uncle Duke, stop being jealous of David's Corvette, or at least don't be so obvious about it.

Posted

Repair shop prices and strategies---> the integrity of David Burgess' driveway on blast. That's great.

Uncle Duke, stop being jealous of David's Corvette, or at least don't be so obvious about it.

That man doesn't have to take a back seat to anybody. :)

Posted

... and the engine together with the transmission will fall backwards, on your head if you are unlucky enough and will cause massive damage in the engine compartment, firewall etc . There are way more bolts on the bellhousing, you absolutely can't "yank" the drive line, the shifter disconnects from UNDER the car, starter motor and clutch hydraulics need to come off. Just to remove the starter you need to remove a crap load of things around and including the throttle housing. 2 ( 4 on some ) M12 Torx screws on the bellhausing can not be seen and require almost 1m of extension. If the socket slips and strips the splines the only option becomes removing the engine and transmission together by lifting up at an angle.

 

Which is what a pro will do in the first place. You are lecturing us a bit too much...

Actually Carl, I was the pro back then.  The following is what the customer wanted and said:

Current transmission works.

I have another one I want installed, it's not as worn.

 

Method of removal:

Go through shifter boot, remove keeper pin and remove shifter.

Get underneath, using air where applicable, remove drive line, 4 trans. to bell housing bolts, trans. mount nuts {2}.

Pull transmission from bell housing.

Install other transmission and put back together.

Clean hands and re-install shifter and pin.

 

I didn't say anything earlier about replacing pressure plate and clutch.

 

Note: customers' daughter played clarinet but not violin.

Posted

Most of that would depend on subsurface prep, wouldn't it. Erosion beneath the slab is seldom a problem with proper prep.

A bigger problem with unsealed cracks, around here, is freeze-thaw cycles.

 

When slab recession does occur, a popular remedy is "mud-jacking", where they drill a hole, and pump pressurized mortar underneath to raise the slab back to its former level.

 

If I wanted it done right, I'd probably have the sub-surface compacted before the rebar goes in. ;)

 

Some slabs around here are done without rebar or mesh though. Expansion of the steel from rusting upon exposure to saltwater will break up the concrete.

Aahh, the things that we don't have to deal with in California........................OMG, the house shook

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