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Posted

Which is guaranteed to set the gal's hearts aflutter. :lol:

Why is a violin maker who drives a fancy car (OK, bear with me.  This IS a joke after all.) like a bad guy in the Superman comics and movies?

 

Because he is a Lexus Luthier.  And now, back to you, David.

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Posted

Oh, my!  Quick!  Who's in charge of planning for the VSA conference this fall?  We need a panel -- of two -- makers/repair folks doing a Car Talk take-off on bowed instrument repair.

Gee, stick that on the radio and "Performance Today" could have a whole new format.....  :lol:

Posted

 

1) Hi, love the topic, I really do think the prices luthiers charge is economy driven.  Meaning, if your in a city with people with money, not just your average blue collar types, your luthier is going to have a richer clientele, therefore being able to charge more and get away with charging more. 

 

 

2) Yes I am convinced that some luthiers charge more per hour or for their services than some Medical Doctors do. 

 

 

 

Some counterpoint:

 

1) Sure.  Local economy has bearing on what a shop can charge for work... especially true if they are reliant on local work.  Relatively cheap travel and shipping has made many of us less reliant on said work.  The other factor is what kind of work and the infrastructure needed to safely accomplish that work.  Top end work requires some significant time and money investments and commitments.  If a person trains, follows through in an organized shop for further training, attends outside training, buys appropriate insurance to cover all the client's property in the shop, installs an alarm system, tools the shop properly, pays taxes, has a website built, etc., the cost of doing business is certainly much higher than going to a year or two year training program, popping out a shingle and taking in what comes.  A player who takes his expensive stuff to a shop that hasn't made these preparations might end up in a situation similar to that which Leonidas Kavakos found himself in with his Henry violin bow recently.

 

I don't know who the luthier in Naples is, and admittedly the quote offered seems high if it was only for the work mentioned... but I don't know the reason.  Did he want to sell a new bow, or did he just not want to work on Ebay bows?  Not the way I'd handle it.  If a piece doesn't make economic sense for me to work on, I simply say so.

 

2) Maybe we know different medical doctors... I know many of the best restorers personally, and they are not getting rich on benchwork.  They can make a decent living IF their hourly rate is appropriate (high enough) for the quality of work they produce and they are focused and productive.  

 

The better the instruments or bows one works on, the higher the bar.  While the price for a service performed by a top gun can seem expensive if considering their services for an inexpensive piece, the picture (and the demands) change when a 6 or 7 figure investment is at stake.  

 

Those who do relatively well in the business often rely on other skills (expertise, some dealing, etc.).

 

So, rather than gripe about an unknown luther in a situation we may not fully understand, I have some questions; If you needed to have a really good instrument have some serious work done on it, what do you think is a fair rate for a well trained, experienced, luthier (who you would trust to do that work) to charge per hour?  Would you pay one the same rate as heart surgeon?  A BMW mechanic?  An electrician? A fast food worker?  

 

Would you expect that same luthier to charge less to work on a cheap fiddle or bow? Would you expect them to work at a lower standard on it?

Posted

Wow! What a wet blanket response from our moderator!

Jeffrey's a well respected "top gun" restorer himself.  He's got to support the more respectable elements here occasionally or they might short sheet his bunk at Oberlin or put the head of an inflatable sheep on his pillow or something.  Anyway, he's right.  :)

Posted

Some counterpoint:

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So, rather than gripe about an unknown luther in a situation we may not fully understand...

 

There are potentially a lot of things about this bow we don't currently understand.  Are there any cracks in stick or frog that need repair?  Does the head need a new tip liner? Do the screw holes in the butt of the stick need rebushing?  How are the eyelet and screw; do they need replacing? Are the plug in the head and wedge in the frog removable, or did somebody glue them in place? How does the frog sit on the stick facets; any adjustment needed?  Does the stick need recambering and/or straightening?

 

Those questions can only be answered by a competent restorer with bow in hand.

 

Whether the repairer saw additional problems beyond needing new hair, winding and thumb grip, we don't know.

 

I hope rynthae is lucky enough to get this bow fixed for $125.  I wouldn't be surprised if it costs more than that because of additional essential repairs, once a restorer has bow in hand.

Posted

Wow! What a wet blanket response from our moderator!

 

:) I think the moderator is allowed to have opinions.  The joking aside, this thread seemed a bit one-sided to me.  We know too little about the situation... and it honestly made me curious as to what members here expect from a technician, and what they feel is an appropriate cost for good and responsible work.

 

My sheets are still full length this morning, but one never knows what will happen at Oberlin!

 

I join ski in hoping the OP has a satisfying outcome to his adventure.

Posted

Some counterpoint:

 

1) Sure.  Local economy has bearing on what a shop can charge for work... especially true if they are reliant on local work.  Relatively cheap travel and shipping has made many of us less reliant on said work.  The other factor is what kind of work and the infrastructure needed to safely accomplish that work.  Top end work requires some significant time and money investments and commitments.  If a person trains, follows through in an organized shop for further training, attends outside training, buys appropriate insurance to cover all the client's property in the shop, installs an alarm system, tools the shop properly, pays taxes, has a website built, etc., the cost of doing business is certainly much higher than going to a year or two year training program, popping out a shingle and taking in what comes.  A player who takes his expensive stuff to a shop that hasn't made these preparations might end up in a situation similar to that which Leonidas Kavakos found himself in with his Henry violin bow recently.

 

I don't know who the luthier in Naples is, and admittedly the quote offered seems high if it was only for the work mentioned... but I don't know the reason.  Did he want to sell a new bow, or did he just not want to work on Ebay bows?  Not the way I'd handle it.  If a piece doesn't make economic sense for me to work on, I simply say so.

 

2) Maybe we know different medical doctors... I know many of the best restorers personally, and they are not getting rich on benchwork.  They can make a decent living IF their hourly rate is appropriate (high enough) for the quality of work they produce and they are focused and productive.  

 

The better the instruments or bows one works on, the higher the bar.  While the price for a service performed by a top gun can seem expensive if considering their services for an inexpensive piece, the picture (and the demands) change when a 6 or 7 figure investment is at stake.  

 

Those who do relatively well in the business often rely on other skills (expertise, some dealing, etc.).

 

So, rather than gripe about an unknown luther in a situation we may not fully understand, I have some questions; If you needed to have a really good instrument have some serious work done on it, what do you think is a fair rate for a well trained, experienced, luthier (who you would trust to do that work) to charge per hour?  Would you pay one the same rate as heart surgeon?  A BMW mechanic?  An electrician? A fast food worker?  

 

Would you expect that same luthier to charge less to work on a cheap fiddle or bow? Would you expect them to work at a lower standard on it?

Here's my opinion from a non-restorer violin player only.  $40.00 minimum for your hourly rate.  Some of that stuff is just flat out complicated.  I would want the best for the least amount, though.  One of the first things a shop owner or top employee needs to do is to gain or earn your customers trust.  If I feel a bad vibe or feel like I'll get taken to the cleaners, I'll walk away.  Doesn't matter if it's a violin shop or an automotive machine shop, for example.

I'll give another example or two.  I'm a new construction/existing home painter.  Knowing what I know about the trade I can tell you if I had to choose 2 new employees or co-workers out of 5 the first thing I'm going to notice is how much paint, stain or dirt are on the person's painter cloths and shoes.  I want the one that are covered with all the colors.  More than likely he's been there and done that already.  If one shows up wearing new whites- no paint marks on them, I'm leary from the get go.  Keep that in mind if you own your own home.

If I walk into a violin shop and see a few people walking around in older jeans or still has the apron on I'd start feeling o.k. about the monetary part of the deal maybe, especially if I need it done.  If by some chance I can find a hungry luthier I may be inclined to go that route, too.  Why?  The work can be good and cheap.  Only problem with that is he can't raise his prices after he feels comfortable.  The calls will still come but the work will go elsewhere.  He'll soon figure out where he went wrong.  Suit and tie guys.  "I ain't from Missouri but you'll have to show me."   

Posted

 

Here's my opinion from a non-restorer violin player only.  $40.00 minimum for your hourly rate.  Some of that stuff is just flat out complicated.  I would want the best for the least amount, though.  

 

Thanks Uncle Duke.  Can you please qualify what sort of instrument you feel is "really good"?  Want to try and get things in perspective (which is a part of my curiosity).  Not to say that good is always reflected by cost, but put a (general) number on it if you can.

Posted

IMHO, the secret to doing well from eBay is 4-fold.  Know the rules which obtain on eBay (and abide by them scrupulously yourself), learn enough to know what you're looking at, have enough skills to do your own repairs/maintenance, and buy only with a plan--never on impulse.   :)   With reference to what Will said, while no one can possibly know it all, it is possible to learn a realistic subset of interest well enough to recognize it and to resolutely limit your bidding/purchases to what you can identify. 

 

Thanks for the tip, Violadamore! I don't plan on making too much of a habit of buying on ebay, but if I do in the future I'll be sure to keep that in mind. :) Part of the reason for that is that I don't have the skills to do repairs or maintenance on my own -- if I did it might be a different story. ^^;;

 

Hi, love the topic, I really do think the prices luthiers charge is economy driven.  Meaning, if your in a city with people with money, not just your average blue collar types, your luthier is going to have a richer clientele, therefore being able to charge more and get away with charging more. 

 

I travel alot and see the different prices on craigslist for violins, I just kill time that way.  But in the cities with lots of jobs, large populations and so on, the prices are a lot higher than in smaller cities, or places with ordinary blue collar or just plain ordinary working people in it.

 

I am a huge ebay violin junk collector myself.  I thought the one piece of junk had a really nice stamped bow that was going to go along with it.  I get it, and its missing the bone end piece, duck taped and the frog doesn't unscrew.  Oh well.  I call a luthier in the city where I live and have business with before, in Salt Lake City, UT, lots of professionals and money.  Almost before I could say anything, he blurts out, $175 to replace just the missing bone tip.  OMG!  Not to mention what the other stuff would cost, I never did get around to even asking for a quote. 

 

Yes I am convinced that some luthiers charge more per hour or for their services than some Medical Doctors do. 

 

But again, its economy based.  I've been to Spokan, WA, its a nice, a regular blue collar average kind of person town or place.  Maybe where you live now, lots of retired professionals with lots of money to just throw away on pet projects or interests?

 

I wish you would give me the luthiers name there, I just might send him the bow I have for a complete and total overhaul.  I do have the best Codabow possible, a GX Diamond.  But really was excited to think that I might actually get a real permambuco wood bow.  And not carbon fiber, or a composite, or brazilwood, but the real deal.  And not to resell, but just to have one for me.

 

Well just some thoughts,

 

don b

 

You are probably right on this -- Naples is full of rich people, for better or worse, and Spokane is a lot more blue collar. I suppose I figured it might make a little bit of a difference, but not nearly that much. I would have felt a lot better about the whole experience if the "bow expert" seemed like he actually knew anything about bows.

The guy back in Spokane who has done work on my family's violins and bows in the past (and done an excellent job with both) is Ernest Barrett, who runs Davenport Violin & Bow ( http://www.haveviolinwilltravel.com/index.html ). He has done just amazing work for us in the past. Here's a quick exerpt from his website:

 

 

"CREDENTIALS

 

In 2005 Ernest opened Davenport Violin & Bow.  He acquires instruments for repair and resale, as well as performing repairs for customers and subcontracting work from other shops, including Paul Schuback in Portland and Bischofberger Violins in Seattle.  He enjoys working one on one with all levels of musicians to meet their individual needs in caring for their instruments.

 

Ernest worked at Lundin's Violins in what is now Spokane Valley from 1997 until 2005, when Lundin's relocated to Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.  It was during this time while at Lundin's that he received his initial training in bowed instrument set up and repair from Jim Kytonen, and bow rehairing from Tim Barber.

 

As well, prior to and during his training in violin and bow repair at Lundin's, Ernest completed the Roberto Venn instrument building and repair course in Arizona, violin and bow building workshops at Bernard Michaud’s mill in Fertans, France (Bois de Lutherie), and summer violin repair workshops with Horst Kloss at the University of New Hampshire.  Currently,  Ernest frequents the Schuback workshop receiving individual instruction honing the necessary skills for high end repairs as well as gaining further insights into building.

 

Ernest is committed to continuing his careful study of violin repair techniques so that he can perform the best possible repairs for his customers."

 

Seems that this guy from Naples use the unacceptably high prices for his service as a tool for promoting the sale of his bows. That way, he can pose as a luthier without need to really be one.

 

No kidding... I bet he's sold a lot of bows that way!

 

There's someone local to me who sailed through his courses at Red Wing while enjoying various drug and alcohol binges. That was his only training. Such people always know enough to impress the average consumer, yet if charged with good bows and instruments they are dangerous.

"What's a bow stamp?" guy has much in common with him. My local shop owner actually asked my husband, in sincerity, what makes Italian instruments more sought after. In the sense that he had really missed that class, not that he was thinking outside the box somehow.

But you should see him at fiddling and picking events. He's a genius of the age.

Oh jeez. Well, sounds like he was cut out more to play on instruments than to work on them!

 

You shouldn't reject CF bows out of hand.  I have a highly talented professional colleague who swears by his.  Also, there's a world-class bow guy just a little east of you in Miami, and another in Virginia.  PM me if you want contact info.  It's not necessary to ship your bow across the country, but something tells me you're going to anyway.

 

I know it probably isn't necessary to ship my bow across the country, but I just put it in the mail yesterday. I'm a little more comfortable with it anyway, since I know that he does such good work. :) And I don't reject CF bows from a playability standpoint at all -- I know that some professional violinists seem to prefer them. I'm not a professional though, at this point it is more for my personal enjoyment (although some day I'd like to improve enough to offer private fiddle lessons). I really just want something better than my old fiberglass bow.

 

You mean there are repair people worse than car mechanics?

To be honest... this guy really reminded me of a used car salesman. -_- The resemblance was uncanny!

 

If one thinks luthiers are scoundrels,one should check out saxophone repair prices,especially in certain shops in N

ew Orleans!

Sadly, I'm not too surprised... this is probably something that can be found in a lot of instrument repair simply because it requires a bit of knowledge from the customer's side in order to avoid being overcharged -- and therefore despite plenty of good-intending shops and individuals, it gives liberty for the shadier folks to take advantage of customers who aren't very knowledgeable.

 

 

Heck, when I was young we were so poor...(I suppose you are wondering just HOW poor)... we were so poor we couldn't even afford a wall.  So I thought:  Why bother to get all those licenses, certificates, awards, honors, blue ribbons, commendations, and pictures with me and Jascha, or me and Ivan, or me and Simone.  So I decided to take a different tack: I just developed this "knowing look,"  and nod at appropriate times ( which gives clients confidence), or nod at inappropriate times ( which makes them wonder what they are missing);  and lo and behold, people not only think I'm an expert, but they are impressed that I don't try to lord it over them with a wall full of what they think I must have stored in trunks out of humbleness.  Giving the illusion of humbleness is icing on the cake.
 
Everything I know I learned from "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying."  Like I used to take violas and turn them into wood chips (perhaps the most useful thing about violas) and sprinkle them around my bench to make the boss think I had been working.  A sure way to end up shop foreman.  Incidentally, you'd be surprised at how many shop owners can't tell the difference between viola chips and violin chips.  
 
Let's see now, where'd I put that book on rehairing?  I have to see what stamps have to do with bows?  I know what they have to do with violas:  you stamp on a viola to get the chips.

 

LMAO! So that's what the stamps are for! XD

 

There are potentially a lot of things about this bow we don't currently understand.  Are there any cracks in stick or frog that need repair?  Does the head need a new tip liner? Do the screw holes in the butt of the stick need rebushing?  How are the eyelet and screw; do they need replacing? Are the plug in the head and wedge in the frog removable, or did somebody glue them in place? How does the frog sit on the stick facets; any adjustment needed?  Does the stick need recambering and/or straightening?

 

Those questions can only be answered by a competent restorer with bow in hand.

 

Whether the repairer saw additional problems beyond needing new hair, winding and thumb grip, we don't know.

 

I hope rynthae is lucky enough to get this bow fixed for $125.  I wouldn't be surprised if it costs more than that because of additional essential repairs, once a restorer has bow in hand.

Hi Skiingfiddler, the "bow expert" actually broke down the cost when I looked at him like he was touched in the head. He said that the rehair would be $60, there might be an extra $20 charge if it is glued in (that's totally reasonable to me), but he wanted to charge something like $100 for the grip (lizard skin, which was evidently their only option) and something like $270 for sterling silver windings. Granted, he really didn't take very much time to look it over before giving his assessment (which were just all of the things I had asked for anyway), but he didn't "find" anything else. He did say that the stick looked to be in good shape, almost in the same breath as insulting the bow and telling me that he had no idea what the stamps meant but that for the price of fixing it I was better off buying a new fiberglass bow from them. He'd never heard of the name Grimm, didn't even see the stamps before telling me the bow was unvaluable (yes, I'm aware that it isn't a million dollar bow, but I'd like to think it's better than the shoddy fiberglass ones he was peddling), and when I informed him that I was not concerned about the value of the bow so much as the playability he looked at me like he just didn't understand.

Posted

Sure, but I hope Anton and gang won't hold a grudge.  I'll start with their shop model I bought second hand from an idividual.  A smaller Strad size that was narrower width wise but length wise was normal.  Romanian made I presume.  After using that violin for a while I reached a point where I thought it had reached it's full potential.  There were times I would want to push it harder but it just wouldn't let me.  It had no more to give.  I believe a high school student could make an all-state orchestra of sorts, possibly the 1st semester of college with that instument.  Then it's upgrade time if they want to get better.

I compare that to a David R. Ouvry I found, I believe from a forth hand owner.  I think the first 2 owners passed on.  The 3rd sold it to the forth, who wasn't a player, and I bought it.  I firmly believe I saved that violin from trash day, really.  Things looked dire when I first laid eyes on the Ouvry.  One of the bouts was separated, the violin looked ancient-long story short.  I didn't know what I had at first other than a solid wood violin.  My first was a laminated vso.  I discussed over the phone if he could tell if it was a solid wood or plywood topped violin.  He wasn't sure but gave me directions to his place.  After driving 25 miles we examined together and I tried showing him the differences between solid and plywood.  All I knew at the time was this has to be better than plywood.  

I found out who Mr. Ouvry is.  Fixed and cleaned up the violin.  Then I spent a year learning Paganini  #20.   These days Jeffrey I'll compare every violin I ever touch  to Mr. Ouvry.  Sure, I got lucky but I wouldn't sell it for anything.  Why he doesn't charge more may be the fact that he wants to stay in business.   Note:  If Mr. Perlman offered me $20,000 for it, I'd give it to him and him only. 

About feel-  While learning about the construction of violins I remember someones quote that said "if you think you took off enough wood from the neck, take off some more.  Especially in the lower positions, it feels good when you can just dig into the neck and play comfortably.    Weight wise for a 4/4.  Anything under 490 grams complete is fine as long as it sounds good. IMO.

About the good or excellent violins Jeff-  if a good player can't get the instrument to crack under pressure, it's a good one.  I'll also say the instrument is real good if it starts coming alive right when your ready to take a break or call it quits for the day.   Yes, Ouvrys' violin is a better instrument than I am player.  I hope to change that.

 

I think a violin shop should have a good fleet of violins for the beginner.  I mean really push the issue.  It can only make the future better.

Before I forget,  I found an old German 3/4 a while back.  Blocked and lined.  There's something special about their sound too.  It's good but different.

Posted

There are many different schools of thought out there...along with many different 'value points'...and we each have our own individual take on things, so I'm not surprised.

 

When I started playing the violin in our community orchestra  I was a little take aback that quite a few people really didn't think about, or be interested in, their equipment at all.

 

It also happens with the bassoon.  But there is just less 'stuff' going on with the bassoon.

 

For example; If a violin played...it was considered good enough.  Several didn't even know you could rehair a bow, or that strings should be changed out more often than 'when they break'.  Others spent a lot of money on instruments of questionable parentage - thinking they had/have a sound investment.  One young woman bought a $50 violin package...just to get the case - that she needed for her 'good' violin. 

 

Fiddle players also have quite a distinctly different set of values I've found.  Especially beginners. 

Posted

Here's my opinion from a non-restorer violin player only.  $40.00 minimum for your hourly rate.  Some of that stuff is just flat out complicated. 

 

A BMW is "complicated."  If you know a mechanic willing to work for $40/hr. there are a lot of BMW owners who'd like to make your acquaintance.

Posted

BTW: From the description I would *assume* that the bow that is the subject of the discussion was made for (supplied to) the Grimm shop in Berlin (by whom, I don't know) sometime after 1890 (Germany export stamp).  If my memory serves, the Carl Grimm business was carried on by his son and his daughter's husband after his death.

Posted

A BMW is "complicated."  If you know a mechanic willing to work for $40/hr. there are a lot of BMW owners who'd like to make your acquaintance.

 

I'd agree with that, but I also understand Uncle Dukes viewpoint.  

 

I suppose if a business is structured in a way that it isn't totally reliant on repair income and is located in a place that does not have a high cost of living, $40 to $60 per hour might cover things... and on the instrument level he's addressing, and the fact he doesn't seem to make his (at least main) living playing, I can understand his concern to control costs.  Like any industry, there are levels and needs to fill at each level.

 

If we're speaking of a serious studio space or a brick and mortar business, once the weight of materials, infrastructure, customer service and business taxes are factored, I doubt there would be much left over for the technician, however.

 

Anyone else?

Posted

A BMW is "complicated."  If you know a mechanic willing to work for $40/hr. there are a lot of BMW owners who'd like to make your acquaintance.

For a 5 speed trans. it's more work pulling the car around and putting it on the rack than the removal process.

Removal process- yank drive line, remove trans. mount nuts, remove 4 bell housing bolts.  Disconnect shifter before getting out of car.  10 minutes,  if you're good.  The real challenge is Benz and Cadillac double row timing chains.

Posted

 

 

Hi Skiingfiddler, the "bow expert" actually broke down the cost when I looked at him like he was touched in the head. He said that the rehair would be $60, there might be an extra $20 charge if it is glued in (that's totally reasonable to me), but he wanted to charge something like $100 for the grip (lizard skin, which was evidently their only option) and something like $270 for sterling silver windings. Granted, he really didn't take very much time to look it over before giving his assessment (which were just all of the things I had asked for anyway), but he didn't "find" anything else. He did say that the stick looked to be in good shape, almost in the same breath as insulting the bow and telling me that he had no idea what the stamps meant but that for the price of fixing it I was better off buying a new fiberglass bow from them. He'd never heard of the name Grimm, didn't even see the stamps before telling me the bow was unvaluable (yes, I'm aware that it isn't a million dollar bow, but I'd like to think it's better than the shoddy fiberglass ones he was peddling), and when I informed him that I was not concerned about the value of the bow so much as the playability he looked at me like he just didn't understand.

 

Rynthae,

 

The bottom line is that you are the potential paying customer and weren't happy with the shop.  That is reason enough not to deal with them.  No further explanations to yourself or others are needed.  If the postings on this thread had been 100% in the shop's favor, I still think you did the right thing in not using a shop you weren't comfortable with.

 

What the shop's side of the story is, we who weren't there simply can't know.

 

I'm glad the shop gave you a clear, detailed quote with clear prices so that you could make up you own mind about using the shop.  That sounds like a fair way of doing business.  With that information, you were able to comparison shop, something always worth doing.

Posted

I'd agree with that, but I also understand Uncle Dukes viewpoint.  

 

I suppose if a business is structured in a way that it isn't totally reliant on repair income and is located in a place that does not have a high cost of living, $40 to $60 per hour might cover things... and on the instrument level he's addressing, and the fact he doesn't seem to make his (at least main) living playing, I can understand his concern to control costs.  Like any industry, there are levels and needs to fill at each level.

 

If we're speaking of a serious studio space or a brick and mortar business, once the weight of materials, infrastructure, customer service and business taxes are factored, I doubt there would be much left over for the technician, however.

 

Anyone else?

About the first thoughts I had about the violin Jeffrey was that I realized right away why there aren't more violin players as oppossed to a guitar player.   The violin costs more money if you want to play music.  The guitar outnumbers the violin 10 to 1.  On a hunch, I bet 30% would come back to, keep playing, or even begin violin if it was cheap enough to maintain.  It's just easier with guitar.  You know, I've heard about violin becoming obsolete.  I first thought,  I thought yeah that's been said before.  But I wasn't believing it.  Now, I'm not sure.   

Posted

:) I think the moderator is allowed to have opinions.  The joking aside, this thread seemed a bit one-sided to me.  We know too little about the situation... and it honestly made me curious as to what members here expect from a technician, and what they feel is an appropriate cost for good and responsible work.

 

My sheets are still full length this morning, but one never knows what will happen at Oberlin!

 

I join ski in hoping the OP has a satisfying outcome to his adventure.

Jeffrey, Before I joined Maestronet I had the belief of "expect the best, prepare for the worst"  mind set.  I try to apply that to most things.  I can tell your like that too, I hope.  Most, or at least half, who show up here at MN look and comment about the bad first without considering what's good first.  It can detract some.  Have a good day.  

Posted

$40/hr for fine work? A friend who does restoration as a self-employed workman after a couple of decades in a fine, high-end shop charges me more than that as a wholesale rate!

 

And I am happy to pay it.

 

The person who does bow restoration for me won't re-camber a bow for less than $300. Why? Ever break one bending it? 

 

His work is not cheap and, again, I am happy to pay it.

Posted

When I commented earlier I mentioned the word "minimum".  Maybe "at least" would be better.  Duane88's re-camber example is exactly what most car shops do.  That way they are covered if something goes wrong.  With luck and skill both trades could do without doing that.

Posted

When I commented earlier I mentioned the word "minimum".  Maybe "at least" would be better.  Duane88's re-camber example is exactly what most car shops do.  That way they are covered if something goes wrong.  With luck and skill both trades could do without doing that.

How would you suggest doing that, skill based, in the fiddle trade?

 

It's not like we're dealing with things remotely approaching the consistency of production-line cars.

 

I've witnessed some of the best in the trade break valuable bows. When they do, it's not like they can just order a  new engine block or somethin'.

Posted

How would you suggest doing that, skill based, in the fiddle trade?

 

It's not like we're dealing with things remotely approaching the consistency of production-line cars.

 

I've witnessed some of the best in the trade break valuable bows. When they do, it's not like they can just order a  new engine block or somethin'.

Dave, if a bow breaks there wasn't enough skill present.  Maybe past experience and knowledge but not skill.  Like someone else mentioned about car work-  sure I can r/r a transmission in 30 min.  Won't cost a bundle either.  Let's say it's major engine trouble.  Different story See where I'm at?  Charge the money Dave, no one else will do it better will they?  How could one manage to break a bow, if it's o.k. to say? 

Posted

$40/hr for fine work? A friend who does restoration as a self-employed workman after a couple of decades in a fine, high-end shop charges me more than that as a wholesale rate!

 

And I am happy to pay it.

 

 

Yup... you notice I've been quiet about my hourly rate.  :)

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