Please help with Violin ID

[fiddleharry]

Hi,

 

This is the 'old' violin whose odd looking bridge and finer tuner were posted in the following thread

 

http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/331713-please-help-id-the-bridge-and-the-fine-tuner/#entry656660

 

I am looking for more info regarding this violin. The scroll was very well grafted. I had to look at it carefully to believe it is an acutal graft, not hand drawn. However, most of the seemmingly cracks on the violin are hand drawn black lines. There is one actual crack on the right top F hole.

 

I am guessing this violin is made around 1850's in the Bohemian region. Hope the experts here could provide more info. It seems to imitate an even earlier style from the 1700's, basing on the fake cracks.

 

Thank you and Happy Holidays.

 

 

 

 

 

What appear to be cracks are acutally black lines drawn onto the violin

 

[fiddleharry]

Hi,

 

I managed to get the picture of the label, which reads Christian Donat Hopf, 173x. I don't belivei this violin could be that old, But could anyone comment if the violin is a faithful copy or imitation of the original Hopf from the 1700's?  The late 19th century Hopf violins look more boxy than this violin. I am curious about the origin of this violin.

 

Thank you and Happy New Year!

 

[Kallie]

Is the bottom ribs of this violin 1 piece? Also, could you add a picture of the back of the scroll and the side of the ribs?

[fiddleharry]

Here are more images. There are no cracks on the ribs, just black lines drawn mimicking cracks. Thank you.

 

Back of the scroll:

 

 

Bottom Rib:

 

 

Lower Right Side Rib:

 

 

Lower left Side Rib:

 

[fiddleharry]

Hello, Or has anyone seen other violins with intentionally drawn black lines to mimick cracks? One thing that puzzles me is why would anyone spent effots to imitate an unknown/unpolular style? Since I am guessing this violin was made around 1850 - 1870 (please correct me if I am wrong), the style to copy should be the Strad, guarneri or Stainer if the maker was located in  the Bohemian region. Thank you.

[jacobsaunders]

It is a violin from the Markneukirchen cottage industry from the last quater of the 19th. century. One of hundreds of thousands made by the wretched artisans for the “Verleger” (Dealers) to supply the entire world with. Fake cracks are not unusual and facimile labels even less so. Regarding the Labels; read post #8 here http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/330195-johann-adam-schönfelder/

[Kat Dunham]

It is a violin from the Markneukirchen cottage industry from the last quater of the 19th. century. One of hundreds of thousands made by the wretched artisans for the “Verleger” (Dealers) to supply the entire world with. Fake cracks are not unusual and facimile labels even less so. Regarding the Labels; read post #8 here http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/330195-johann-adam-schönfelder/

 

Wretched artisans because they did wretched work or because they were paid so poorly for their work?

[Violadamore]

Wretched artisans because they did wretched work or because they were paid so poorly for their work?

While I can't address which use of "wretched" Jacob intended, they were generally very badly paid, and by the dozen pieces at that.  Some of the work is very fine, some is rather horrible, but one can't always tell from the outside.  The most common shortcoming is a failure to graduate the belly properly, referred to around here as "beaver gnawed".  Where the undersurface of the top has been left thick and rough, finishing the graduation as if it was a kit will often yield a decent sounding fiddle.  When they wanted or had reason to, they could produce very nice work, for which they were paid more per dozen, though still nowhere near what the fiddles eventually sold for.  The wood often looks very nice.

[MarkBouquet]

I recall hearing that student grade violins were often left with excessively thick tops deliberately, on the premise that they would require final graduating by American workers, and hence were imported as semi-raw materials liable for lower import duties. But many of them never got that needed regraduation, and were simply sold to unwary, unknowing and inexperienced buyers "as is." Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I personally owned two instruments that fit this description. One was a 16" Juzek student grade viola, circa 1950's or so, that was cleanly worked everywhere, except the top turned out to be way too heavy and crudely carved on the underside, in stark contrast to every other part of the instrument. I also owned a late 19th century Markie violin (My best guess, I never got a professional opinion of it.) that also turned out to have an essentially ungraduated top.

[franciscus]

I will never understand so invasive methods of antiquing  as "screwdriving" is (Mr. Saunders wrote about it a few months ago: http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/330416-what-model-is-this-a-copy-of/?p=626551). Beside that, if I see well, the back has been made from two parts, but the "flames" mimic one part back. Whoever did it, was pretty stupid or drunk, or, rather, he was just having some fun.

[fiddleharry]

It is a violin from the Markneukirchen cottage industry from the last quater of the 19th. century. One of hundreds of thousands made by the wretched artisans for the “Verleger” (Dealers) to supply the entire world with. Fake cracks are not unusual and facimile labels even less so. Regarding the Labels; read post #8 here http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/330195-johann-adam-schönfelder/

Hi Jacob,   Thank you for the information. Looks like my initial assessment was not too far off, although I hoped the violin was older than just late 19th century   Based on your info, I found this article (http://www.allthingsstrings.com/layout/set/print/News/Interviews-Profiles/German-Factory-Fiddles-The-Mystery-of-Origin) to further educate myself.