lambert Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 I have a nice fiddle that i've been wanting to do a overhaul on setup wise. The problem with is that the nut to f hole nick length is 338 mm. This fiddle has a grafted scroll and I imagine the replacement neck is the culprit as the f hole placement seems correct. Ive been considering fitting a bridge/ soundpost at 330 mm, but that is so far up on the body of the fiddle that i imagine bowing would be awkward. What do you folks do when the scale length is all wonky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 You don't give the neck length. The stop length "seems correct," but you don't quantify! We need more numbers, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deans Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Yes, more measurements are needed. I personally like all of my instruments set with the same stop length/neck length ratio, and let the vibrating string length vary. I can adjust to a different scale easier than adjusting to a different feel of the neck to body. This is particularly important when you like to play different size violas, but there are also slight differences in violins. I have an oversize violin with a long stop, the neck has been lengthened accordingly. Other people may not like this, some people would rather have the same exact scale length on all their fiddles. In your case it sounds like your vibrating string length is particularly long, you may end up with tension problems (can be fixed with light gauge strings). Aside from tweeking the bridge forward (I hate this), you can make a fatter nut to shorten things, if your stop is normal it sounds like your neck is long and the latter might help. More details on your instrument are needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambert Posted December 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Hi Addie, Attempting quantification The fiddle is a long one: 361mm The neck stop length is 136mm the inner nick on the f hole is 203mm from the upper edge of the top plate the fingerboard is 269mm Let me know if you need any other numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deans Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 203mm seems really long, if I'm understanding things correctly. This is going to be a tough one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Having posted this topic before, the consensus was that the neck should be @ 130, and the bridge set @ 195. Sacconi says that setting the bridge nearer to the upper eyes is fine, but setting it below the nicks isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambert Posted December 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Yeah-- also, referring back to C&J the f holes are about 3mm lower on the plate than they suggest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambert Posted December 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Addie, how would you deal with the 6mm of extra neck stop length? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Addie, how would you deal with the 6mm of extra neck stop length? How else? New neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambert Posted December 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Haha yeah I figured. Now I really have the scale length blues... Esp. considering the old scroll is grafted onto the offending neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Haha yeah I figured. Now I really have the scale length blues... Esp. considering the old scroll is grafted onto the offending neck. Well, a 12mm nut would look silly, wouldn’t it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deans Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 If you shorten the neck to achieve a 330 scale, you will have a really weird feel going up to the high positions. If you lengthen the neck to achieve a 2:3 ratio, you will have a really long scale, maybe not even workable with many strings. Maybe this instrument was meant to be a small viola? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff White Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Isn't this achieving the 2:3 mensur currently? It's 6mm more in neck, and 8mm more in body stop. Ideally for the mensur, it is only 1mm short on the body. If you make the neck correct (130), then the body would be horribly out of mensur proportion. Am I seeing this wrong? So the answer isn't really shortening then neck, is it? I've posted before about trying to understand what is more important, the mensur proportion, or the neck stop. I would think the proportion (I'm the worst player on MN, so this is why I'm asking)is more important. jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 You have a big violin .... I don't think there's anything you can really do about it that makes sense. But that depends on whether you're looking to play it or sell it or keep it as part of a collection ..... The body stop is very long for the back length - I'm assuming that this isn't anything valuable, since the f-holes are placed so eccentrically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambert Posted February 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I didn't get to see the last three posts on this subject before it climbed down into obscurity, but thank you guys for responding. I dont know much about the ratio theories so thanks for getting me started in understanding those. Martin, I don't think this instrument is valuable. I posted about it when i was first starting to think about building and pictures can be seen here: http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/323446-an-old-violin-identification-and-varnish-question/ In fact, in rereading the posts, you figured it was a "good quality German trade violin circa 1880-1890, Dresden or Berlin" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Smith Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Get octave violin strings start with a low c then tune it exactly like a cello,,, after a few hours of playing with time to come out of shock you might stop and say WoW ! I've been lusting for one of these for a bit now,, they are cool. It works well with a big fiddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Yes, good idea. I wouldn't attempt to correct the stop - either use it as a viola for a child or an octave violin as Evan suggests (though this would be an octave above a cello), or wait till you meet a professional basketball player who's taking up the violin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Noon Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Since it's not a very valuable instrument, I'd just leave it alone and use it. After all, viola players (some of whom aren't giants) deal with much longer string lengths all the time. String tension might be a bit of a concern, if you use sets that are prone to breakage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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