Violin Identification Class/Workshop

[Ron1]

You have to see as many as good violins possible,and learn from experts.

 

It's almost impossible unless you're working in the violin business full time.

 

KY

 

The first line above could be achieved through a school/course such as has been proposed (presuming the experts would agree to teach).

 

The second line above illustrates the need for a school/course such as is proposed.

 

[skiingfiddler]

You have to see as many as good violins possible,and learn from experts.

 

It's almost impossible unless you're working in the violin business full time.

 

KY

 

 

 

 

The second line above illustrates the need for a school/course such as is proposed.

 

 

Ron,

 

Great point.  If knowledge about violin identification is a continual need, ie, if there are always some people who want a better understanding of violin identification, then the best way to meet that need is with an ongoing, regularly scheduled course somewhere.  Having the occasional session at Oberlin for which a selected few are invited or a one hour lecture every few years at the VSA doesn't come close to satisfying the need.

 

Steven Csik

 

[Roger Hargrave]

What you do is acquire several tall stacks of Sothebys catalogs for auctions of fine instruments from the last 60 years and put them in your bathroom. Then read them and study the photos while you go #2. You'll be up to speed in no time. 

 

This is a rather good suggestion. Those and the internet would provide an excellent start. Of course they are not infallible, but when actual instruments are not available they are a great help. I was just going through my photo archives this last week and I remembered Michael Bird telling me about the time he was sleeping over at Charles Beares house. He told me that Charles spent his evenings looking at violin photographs. It really impressed him.

[skiingfiddler]

This is a rather good suggestion. Those and the internet would provide an excellent start. Of course they are not infallible, but when actual instruments are not available they are a great help. I was just going through my photo archives this last week and I remembered Michael Bird telling me about the time he was sleeping over at Charles Beares house. He told me that Charles spent his evenings looking at violin photographs. It really impressed him.

 

Photos are better than nothing, but they definitely have their limitations.  I have, at times, seen two different photos of the same instrument and thought I was looking at two different instruments.  Others, with more violin knowledge than I have, have made the same error.

 

There are two important qualities of violins which I find that photos capture very poorly: varnish quality and arching.  In both cases you seem to need the instrument in hand, turning it and seeing it in various lightings to get a true sense of those qualities.

 

There's no substitute for seeing instruments first hand.  The question is: how to establish some kind of program so that people who are not dealers have that opportunity on more than just a rare occasion.

 

Steven Csik

[joerobson]

It is notable that folks like Chris Reuning, Phillip Kass, Jim Warren and many others are generous with their time and expertise within the current group of organizations and workshops. 

Seeing and having time to examine great instruments is a problem for many contemporary makers, so ANY chance you get to do this: take advantage of the opportunity.

As Jeffery pointed out, the is a lot of time and effort involved in creating and maintaining an educational workshop.  The cost of creating a workshop on antique violin/bow expertise would be astronomical [Mike...did I spell that right?].

Is there an answer to the problem...probably not in my lifetime.  However the only solution that I have heard...and been involved with...is creating a central place for workshops to happen...but the funding is [how should I say this] an issue.

on we go,

Joe

[Ron1]

I think that part of the 'fear', or reason for opposition to the idea of a structured course, is a misconception that the students would all become 'experts' and flood the market.  The reality is, that the overwhelming majority would most likely be amateur and professional makers and dealers who simply wish to expand their identification knowledge & skills for personal use or to better serve clients bringing in eBay purchases or attic finds. 

 

Such a course would probably go no further than id'ing regions of origin, anyway.  Although discussion and speculation of maker identity would undoubtedly take place, it would not necessarily be a part of the curriculum.

 

It seems like an obvious way to provide an apparently large number of folks that have an interest, or a need, to know more in this area.  A precious, dedicated few, may continue seeking to educate themselves, and eventually become 'expert'.  But that would take lots of additional time and learning the old-fashioned way- working 'hands-on' in big shops or auction houses.

[Roger Hargrave]

Skiingfiddler is right as are Ron1 and several others. The problem is that the big concentrations of instruments in large shops and even the old style auction houses, no longer exist and they are unlikely to be replaced by anything similar for a long time.

[joerobson]

Skiingfiddler is right as are Ron1 and several others. The problem is that the big concentrations of instruments in large shops and even the old style action houses, no longer exist and they are unlikely to be replaced by anything similar for a long time.

 

So what has been created is a weird kind of stratification of information.  We are a divided society.  On one side we have those who have the experience of seeing, hearing, experiencing Stradivari, Peter of Mantua, Carlo Bergonzi, del Gesu, Joseph Filius et. al.....and on the other side are those whose information about these wonders is second hand.  Unfortunately in very many ways the divide is significant.  Making is a sensory driven process...sight and ear training guide the maker and the lines of communication with the player.

 

A story comes to mind....At one of the VSA fine instrument exhibits I was looking at a nice, but not famous, Stradivari violin with a friend [a prize winning maker with 25 years experience so it was not his first Strad viewing].  Naturally we had been talking "varnish".  As we were examining the violin the 3 pm sun came through the window and the fire lit under the varnish.  At that moment his face also lit up.  That discussion we had been having about the ground suddenly made sense to him in a whole new way.

 

As the best instruments are spread around the world and many are seldom seen in public this divide will become worse. 

 

This situation makes communication, education, and the generosity of the dealers, players, and owners of fine instruments even more essential.  I think this is happening, despite the changes that have closed many of the shops that educated generations of violin makers.

 

on we go,

Joe