Sign in to follow this  
jowl

Nasal tone

Recommended Posts

I could be mistaken,  but I have always gone on the assumption that Del Gesu's were more likely to be described as nasal then the "average" Strad (if there is such a thing as average or usual).  I only make late period DG copies and have no experience with making Strad models and I perfer the sound of DG better in recordings that compare the two side by side.  I think good viola's have what I think of as a nasal quality.  Maybe there is a connection somehow.  I don't use any scientific testing to measure frequencies or tune plates, so maybe someone more familiar with that method can add more research based details.  Maybe what I am thinking is to define for yourself what is "nasal" and what does that add or take away from the sound / projection qualities you are going for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've noticed two things in violins in general.

 

        Narrow C-bout ---less than 112 mm (arch width at narrowest)

 

        High pinched arch---roof top like arches

 

These two things,I think,contributes nasal sound.

 

(Of course,this is not  a rule always there're exceptions,but...)

 

KY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is that 112 with calipers?  I'd have thought 112 was at the wide end of the range?

E

112 is along the arc(flexible ruler),caliper reading could be 2-3 mm less depending on arch shape,height etc.

 

KY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean bad nasal, as I am trying to avoid it. I have read that too much sound in the frequency range 1000-1800 Hz would result in a violin that sounds nasal, although some resonance in that range is necessary for a violin to sound good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Google can help you find a variety of scientific studies that try to quantify the "subjective" perception of a nasal tone with frequencies. From what I read it seems to be a matter of proportion. So you need some response in the "nasal" range or else the tone can sound tubby or hollow.

I've experimented with some bridge geometries that kill response in the frequency range you mentioned. The results sounded really bad to me. The problem might be better stated as, "What can one vary in plate geometry to adjust the balance of the nasal frequency range."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Google can help you find a variety of scientific studies that try to quantify the "subjective" perception of a nasal tone with frequencies. From what I read it seems to be a matter of proportion. So you need some response in the "nasal" range or else the tone can sound tubby or hollow.I've experimented with some bridge geometries that kill response in the frequency range you mentioned. The results sounded really bad to me. The problem might be better stated as, "What can one vary in plate geometry to adjust the balance of the nasal frequency range."

You expressed my question better than I did. I thought the acousticians out there might have some ideas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand that some violins have built in nasal characteristics, as mentioned earlier (C bout width, high arching, thick plates etc.). Let's assume for the moment that, for whatever reason, none of these parameters can be changed. Is there anything that can be done set-up wise that can minimize the 'nasality' of a violin? Bridge, post, after-length, etc.. 

 

Barry

 

Nasality??? Why not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean bad nasal, as I am trying to avoid it. I have read that too much sound in the frequency range 1000-1800 Hz would result in a violin that sounds nasal, although some resonance in that range is necessary for a violin to sound good.

If you hum a note with your mouth open and then do it again with your nose nostrils held shut you may get what some people call a nasal sound--like if you had a cold and your nose was stuffed.  You might call this a bad nasal sound.

 

If you do an FFT analysis in Audacity or some similar program you may find that your normal hum has a strong fundamental and 2nd harmonic in comparison to the 3rd and 4th height.  Your nasal sound may have a weaker fundamental and 2nd harmonic in comparison to the 3rd or 4th.

 

This suggests to me that a nasal sound might result if the lower frequency resonance peaks of A0, and B1- are low in amplitude compared to the next higher resonances.

 

In order to get a higher amplitude A0 I suggest thinning the plates more and using a lower bass bar and using thinner ribs.  Go to thin and you start to get a tubby sound.

 

A tubby sound results when you hold your head underwater in a bath tub and hum a note.  In this case the fundamental is too strong in comparison to the higher harmonics.  The tubby sound can be somewhat compensated by holding  your nose while you're underwater to balance the effects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you hum a note with your mouth open and then do it again with your nose nostrils held shut you may get what some people call a nasal sound--like if you had a cold and your nose was stuffed.  You might call this a bad nasal sound.

 

If you do an FFT analysis in Audacity or some similar program you may find that your normal hum has a strong fundamental and 2nd harmonic in comparison to the 3rd and 4th height.  Your nasal sound may have a weaker fundamental and 2nd harmonic in comparison to the 3rd or 4th.

 

This suggests to me that a nasal sound might result if the lower frequency resonance peaks of A0, and B1- are low in amplitude compared to the next higher resonances.

 

In order to get a higher amplitude A0 I suggest thinning the plates more and using a lower bass bar and using thinner ribs.  Go to thin and you start to get a tubby sound.

 

A tubby sound results when you hold your head underwater in a bath tub and hum a note.  In this case the fundamental is too strong in comparison to the higher harmonics.  The tubby sound can be somewhat compensated by holding  your nose while you're underwater to balance the effects.

 

Cleaver explenation, I Like :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

It sounds like it might be due mainly to proportions, or perhaps a bass bar which is too thick. Also the ribs might be too high.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.