Prime numbers.........Coincidence?

[Voldemort]

As I was staring recently at tables of measurements of some rather ‘Nice’ Cremonese instruments, it struck me that the numbers that make up a violin are (or could in theory be) prime.  

For example:

Body length:  353
Upper bout width:  167
Center bout width:  109
Lower bout width:  211
Distance between upper eyes of FFs:  41
Distance of lower lobe of FFs from edge:  13
Mensure:  193 (if you’re Del Gesu), or 197 (if you’re making the ‘Soil’)
Width of scroll:  41
Narrowest point of scroll:  11
Length of scroll:  103
Neck length:  13 (cm)

Coincidence?  I think not!  Is it a coincidence that the moon is made of cheese?  Is it a coincidence that the Sun is the center of the galaxy, nay, universe?!  I think not!

[skyline420]

Wow, good observation.  Would like to look into this further.

[Craig Tucker]

Only those in the prime of life will really understand any of this.

[MarkBouquet]

I could tell you why those numbers are all prime. But I'm not allowed to. It would be a violation of the Prime Directive for me to interfere with development on your planet.

(Edit: I know the secret of Stradivari too, but I'm sorry, I just can't tell you.)

[chungviolins]

I can make every number even,am I a magician?

 

KY

[MikeC]

Primes?  no no,  it's based on invariant Lorentzian space time intervals.   sheesh!

[Roger Hargrave]

I may be thick, but I don't think that prime numbers translate from millimetres to the Cremonese inch or whatever they used. Ratios yes, prime numbers no.

[Violadamore]

As I was staring recently at tables of measurements of some rather ‘Nice’ Cremonese instruments, it struck me that the numbers that make up a violin are (or could in theory be) prime.  

For example:

Body length:  353

Upper bout width:  167

Center bout width:  109

Lower bout width:  211

Distance between upper eyes of FFs:  41

Distance of lower lobe of FFs from edge:  13

Mensure:  193 (if you’re Del Gesu), or 197 (if you’re making the ‘Soil’)

Width of scroll:  41

Narrowest point of scroll:  11

Length of scroll:  103

Neck length:  13 (cm)

Coincidence?  I think not!  Is it a coincidence that the moon is made of cheese?  Is it a coincidence that the Sun is the center of the galaxy, nay, universe?!  I think not!

I believe that the relationship you found is inherently complex, in that its roots are at least half imaginary.   

[Addie]

I may be thick, but I don't think that prime numbers translate from millimetres to the Cremonese inch or whatever they used. Ratios yes, prime numbers no.

My thoughts exactly.  Ratios are the key.  Millimeters weren’t known in Golden Era Cremona.  But Strad’s FIL wrote books on architecture, proportions, etc. and used the Cremonese measure.

Capra-1717-Oncie.pdf

[MikeC]

I believe that the relationship you found is inherently complex, in that its roots are at least half imaginary.   

If it were half imaginary would the length be the square root of negative one minus one half? or is that plus one half,  ok now I'm cornfused      ah wait,  now I get it.  It's not primes,  it's fractals!

[La Folia]

The Cremonese meter had a different length than the modern meter, so those are actually all multiples of the same denominators.  Try it and you'll find out.

[Voldemort]

I may be thick, but I don't think that prime numbers translate from millimetres to the Cremonese inch or whatever they used. Ratios yes, prime numbers no.

I hope you haven't taken me seriously here...

[Voldemort]

Primes?  no no,  it's based on invariant Lorentzian space time intervals.   sheesh!

^What he said.

[Rick Hyslop]

Voldemort, I think that if you get caught playing around with these numbers at Hogwarts instead of learning your basic wizardry skills you could very well be expelled !

 

r.

[Addie]

The PDF I posted, printed @ 100% on U.S. Letter sized paper, will give you a Cremonese ruler.

[Stephen Faulk]

Yeah is reminds me of makers who dote on the metric system thinking it it superior, but instruments were made on base 12 or 10 inch systems. Metric system is good, but inches lay out in rounder numbers that show any purposeful ratios , if they even exist. 

 

I'm an atheist when it comes to hidden numbers secret religions in instruments..........except the one truth path The DG Code. 

 

Now, where did I put that dammed cilice tonight? I must punish myself. 

 

Your truly, 

Silas

[Michael_Molnar]

This is numerology without a doubt.

 

Time to move on.

[Addie]

... where did I put that dammed cilice tonight? I must punish myself. 

 

Your truly, 

Silas

Wrong book.  You want fret gut.

 

... and you can’t decode The Code without Cremonese measure!  

 

Mock numerology?  Michael, I predict you will mis-measure some part of a violin in the next six years, by 0.5mm.  See if I’m wrong!  Hahahahahahahahahaha! (evil laugh).  Wait!  Multiply six by 0.5 and YOU GET 3!!!!  The mystical number three!  See? The magic of numerology never fails!  

[Addie]

The PDF I posted, printed @ 100% on U.S. Letter sized paper, will give you a Cremonese ruler.

P.S. Suitable for framing.  Makes a great Festivus gift!

[MikeC]

The PDF I posted, printed @ 100% on U.S. Letter sized paper, will give you a Cremonese ruler.

Are you sure?  It looks too small. 

[Addie]

Are you sure?  It looks too small. 

What are you getting, in mm?

[Patrick KREIT]

Here is a site for fans of numerology, with all the old units of measurement (1500 to 1800) from the most important italian cities, including Cremona, as well as much interesting information for violin makers:

 

http://www.claviantica.com/Geometry_files/Italian_geometry.htm

 

 

www.kreitpatrick.com

[Stephen Faulk]

P.S. Suitable for framing.  Makes a great Festivus gift!

 Yeah I have mine delivered by Vandelay Express. 

[MikeC]

What are you getting, in mm?

maybe it is right,  I get 25mm for the oncia

[Addie]

The "oncie quattro del Braccio di Cremona" should be 40.25 mm, although an 1877 book defined it as 40.7 mm, and others as low as 39. I know both Sacconi and Pollens measured the one on the tower in Cremona. IIRC, Pollens got 40.25. I don't remember what Sacconi got.