Voldemort Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 As I was staring recently at tables of measurements of some rather ‘Nice’ Cremonese instruments, it struck me that the numbers that make up a violin are (or could in theory be) prime. For example:Body length: 353Upper bout width: 167Center bout width: 109Lower bout width: 211Distance between upper eyes of FFs: 41Distance of lower lobe of FFs from edge: 13Mensure: 193 (if you’re Del Gesu), or 197 (if you’re making the ‘Soil’)Width of scroll: 41Narrowest point of scroll: 11Length of scroll: 103Neck length: 13 (cm)Coincidence? I think not! Is it a coincidence that the moon is made of cheese? Is it a coincidence that the Sun is the center of the galaxy, nay, universe?! I think not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline420 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Wow, good observation. Would like to look into this further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Tucker Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Only those in the prime of life will really understand any of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBouquet Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I could tell you why those numbers are all prime. But I'm not allowed to. It would be a violation of the Prime Directive for me to interfere with development on your planet. (Edit: I know the secret of Stradivari too, but I'm sorry, I just can't tell you.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chungviolins Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I can make every number even,am I a magician? KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Primes? no no, it's based on invariant Lorentzian space time intervals. sheesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Hargrave Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I may be thick, but I don't think that prime numbers translate from millimetres to the Cremonese inch or whatever they used. Ratios yes, prime numbers no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 As I was staring recently at tables of measurements of some rather ‘Nice’ Cremonese instruments, it struck me that the numbers that make up a violin are (or could in theory be) prime. For example: Body length: 353 Upper bout width: 167 Center bout width: 109 Lower bout width: 211 Distance between upper eyes of FFs: 41 Distance of lower lobe of FFs from edge: 13 Mensure: 193 (if you’re Del Gesu), or 197 (if you’re making the ‘Soil’) Width of scroll: 41 Narrowest point of scroll: 11 Length of scroll: 103 Neck length: 13 (cm) Coincidence? I think not! Is it a coincidence that the moon is made of cheese? Is it a coincidence that the Sun is the center of the galaxy, nay, universe?! I think not! I believe that the relationship you found is inherently complex, in that its roots are at least half imaginary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I may be thick, but I don't think that prime numbers translate from millimetres to the Cremonese inch or whatever they used. Ratios yes, prime numbers no. My thoughts exactly. Ratios are the key. Millimeters weren’t known in Golden Era Cremona. But Strad’s FIL wrote books on architecture, proportions, etc. and used the Cremonese measure. Capra-1717-Oncie.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I believe that the relationship you found is inherently complex, in that its roots are at least half imaginary. If it were half imaginary would the length be the square root of negative one minus one half? or is that plus one half, ok now I'm cornfused ah wait, now I get it. It's not primes, it's fractals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Folia Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 The Cremonese meter had a different length than the modern meter, so those are actually all multiples of the same denominators. Try it and you'll find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voldemort Posted December 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 I may be thick, but I don't think that prime numbers translate from millimetres to the Cremonese inch or whatever they used. Ratios yes, prime numbers no. I hope you haven't taken me seriously here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voldemort Posted December 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Primes? no no, it's based on invariant Lorentzian space time intervals. sheesh! ^What he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hyslop Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Voldemort, I think that if you get caught playing around with these numbers at Hogwarts instead of learning your basic wizardry skills you could very well be expelled ! r. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 The PDF I posted, printed @ 100% on U.S. Letter sized paper, will give you a Cremonese ruler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Faulk Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Yeah is reminds me of makers who dote on the metric system thinking it it superior, but instruments were made on base 12 or 10 inch systems. Metric system is good, but inches lay out in rounder numbers that show any purposeful ratios , if they even exist. I'm an atheist when it comes to hidden numbers secret religions in instruments..........except the one truth path The DG Code. Now, where did I put that dammed cilice tonight? I must punish myself. Your truly, Silas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Molnar Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 This is numerology without a doubt. Time to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 ... where did I put that dammed cilice tonight? I must punish myself. Your truly, Silas Wrong book. You want fret gut. ... and you can’t decode The Code without Cremonese measure! Mock numerology? Michael, I predict you will mis-measure some part of a violin in the next six years, by 0.5mm. See if I’m wrong! Hahahahahahahahahaha! (evil laugh). Wait! Multiply six by 0.5 and YOU GET 3!!!! The mystical number three! See? The magic of numerology never fails! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 The PDF I posted, printed @ 100% on U.S. Letter sized paper, will give you a Cremonese ruler. P.S. Suitable for framing. Makes a great Festivus gift! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 The PDF I posted, printed @ 100% on U.S. Letter sized paper, will give you a Cremonese ruler. Are you sure? It looks too small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Are you sure? It looks too small. What are you getting, in mm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick KREIT Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Here is a site for fans of numerology, with all the old units of measurement (1500 to 1800) from the most important italian cities, including Cremona, as well as much interesting information for violin makers: http://www.claviantica.com/Geometry_files/Italian_geometry.htm www.kreitpatrick.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Faulk Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 P.S. Suitable for framing. Makes a great Festivus gift! Yeah I have mine delivered by Vandelay Express. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 What are you getting, in mm? maybe it is right, I get 25mm for the oncia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 The "oncie quattro del Braccio di Cremona" should be 40.25 mm, although an 1877 book defined it as 40.7 mm, and others as low as 39. I know both Sacconi and Pollens measured the one on the tower in Cremona. IIRC, Pollens got 40.25. I don't remember what Sacconi got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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