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Peter K-G

Purfling knives

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While on the subject and learning my new tools and not getting the job done :angry:  I bought this one at the same time - completely useless!! I suspect it is intended to be reshaped and sharpened in some way

 

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I like this knife

 

attachicon.gif2014-10-20 20.32.25.jpg

 

But why can't they make the knives flat on one side so that the groove would be angular :angry:

Peter,

I agree. Flat on one side is preferable, not to make the sides of the groove angular, but to make them vertical. But, I am not a trained professional maker. I can understand why the angled sides might help tighten up the purfling when it is pressed in. Let's hear from some trained people, please.

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The top one is the regular pick, the lower one is ‘>’ shaped, presumably to work in the corners.

 Good evening Addie!

I am very interested in original Stradivari tools - have You sketches of all?

Thanks!

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Peter,

 

I used something similar to the device you illustrate in your first post as a purfling Marker, then cut the sides of the groove vertically with two different knives, by hand.  One has a left bevel, the other right bevel.  The double bladed purfling marker can't make parallel groove walls to full depth by itself because the width of the blade blanks is too great (at least on mine) to permit the bevels to be on the inside, and I think the waste would jam them up before you could get much depth anyway.

 

I used a purfling pick like the one in your second photo with a drastically reshaped  cutting head for a few years, until it broke.  Then I made a new one out of an old pocket knife that works as well.  The whole process remains a meticulous, time eating pain but working in a patient, methodical way does eventually produce good results.

 

Doug

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Peter,

 

The double bladed purfling marker can't make parallel groove walls to full depth by itself because the width of the blade blanks is too great (at least on mine) to permit the bevels to be on the inside, and I think the waste would jam them up before you could get much depth anyway.

 

That's one reason why many of us use separate edge-guided tools for the inside and outside cut (rather than trying to cut both at once). I think Roger Hargrave has already put some emphasis on this.

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By far my favourite purfling chisel is made from an old needle file. I heated up the tang to make sure it wouldn't snap, and bent it around. The cutting tip is broadest at the tip, it's just ground back at the curved heel.

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That's one reason why many of us use separate edge-guided tools for the inside and outside cut (rather than trying to cut both at once). I think Roger Hargrave has already put some emphasis on this.

 

This is also why I bought this particular knife. Roger had some very educative posts in Roger's edge method thread: (http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/330230-rogers-edge-method/). 

 

With this cutter, that I showed, if the blades would have been flat towards the outside, one blade at a time can be moved up so just one of them cuts. The problem can be easily fixed by grinding the blades flat on the outsides.

 

ps.

There is some very interesting thoughts about Trojans too and all kinds of other humbleness.

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Has anyone ever had good success completely cutting the purfling groove with those "cutters", using two blades, or even a single?

 

For me, purfling is one of the aspects of making that I enjoy the least; more accurately I rather dislike that task altogether. My first attempts led to a rough, irregular groove, and ever since I used the tool simply for marking, followed by cutting the groove with an actual knife.

 

Of course that's all in the past as I use an end mill cutter these days.

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I think it's been discussed before, but I use an end mill in a dremel tool using a StewMac guide that I modified to allow better access when working inside the C bouts.

 

I use a foot operated switch to start and stop the dremel. At the start of the cut I have the end mill slightly above the wood surface, and then I start the motor and carefully plunge the cutter into the wood and make the cut. When the cut is finished, I stop and power down the motor before removing the bit from the groove.

 

It's important to ensure the guide is tight against the plate edge at all times otherwise you get divots or a wandering purfling groove. Before working on a plate, I would recommend cutting some grooves in scrap wood to get a feel for the tool.

 

Of course, the corner miters still have to be done by hand, but I would rather spend more time on this than hacking out the entire groove manually.

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I'm starting to get a grip on the new purfling cutter  :)

But I'll do the rest with a regular knife

 

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For other amateurs like me, the images and explenations by Roger in Roger's edge method is a must read!

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For me, purfling is one of the aspects of making that I enjoy the least; more accurately I rather dislike that task altogether.

 

 

I both agree and disagree, because when you manage to get a really nice purfling in c-bouts and corners it's very rewarding

 

Of course that's all in the past as I use an end mill cutter these Days.

 

Is that cheating ;)

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I feel your pain.  I use to get real nervous before doing purfling, consequently my purfling wasn't that good.  I use to do two nice corners and two that didn't look anything like the other two.  I've said this a dozen times here on MN, you can't make one or two fiddles a year and expect to have corners that look like David Burgess.  It ain't gonna happen.  You must practice until you get it, I don't care what kind of knives, markers , or picks you use.  Once you start getting it you will love purfling by hand.   

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I'm starting to love it already (not David Burgess quality yet but getting closer and he gets nervous)

I'll call it for tonight, hope next weekend will give me some more time

 

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Have a nice evening and good night

 

 

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 Good evening Addie!

I am very interested in original Stradivari tools - have You sketches of all?

Thanks!

Yes, most of them were posted here:

 

Stradivari Tool (Square)

 

Cradle (use inverted arching templates)

 

Museo Stradivariano No. 665

 

Graduation Punch (go through the entire topic):

 

Video on Strad Graduation Punch

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That's one reason why many of us use separate edge-guided tools for the inside and outside cut (rather than trying to cut both at once). I think Roger Hargrave has already put some emphasis on this.

I have seen that the old Italians used single blade purfling tools but had never realized the significance. Can you cut to depth with this kind of single bladed edge guided tool or is it still just a marker that has to be followed with a regular knife? . 

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Has anyone ever had good success completely cutting the purfling groove with those "cutters", using two blades, or even a single?

Absolutely. I use two cutters with single blades. I set the blade out to about 2mm then run the tool until it bottoms out on the edge. Pick out the middle and you're done.

M

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