W.E Hill & Sons Varnish Cleaner

[K123]

I bought some Varnish cleaner, as it says in the title. I would like to know if anyone has any experience with this specific varnish cleaner, and if it is safe to use on most varnishes?

 

It says "Contains Turpentine". No idea what the other ingredients are. Here is a picture: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hill-Varnish-Hill-Cleaner-Hill-Varnish-Cleaner-Polish-/271463139507?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f3476c8b3

 

 

Thank you.

[Roger Hargrave]

We were expected to use this varnish cleaner when I worked at Hills. It was used in conjunction with fine Tripoli powder, but I was never happy about it. In fact most of us ignored the advice of the management. It certainly contains turpentine and linseed oil. If not cleaned off properly it can cause a sticky build up. Moreover, some varnishes may actually be damage by its contents.  

[K123]

We were expected to use this varnish cleaner when I worked at Hills. It was used in conjunction with fine Tripoli powder, but I was never happy about it. In fact most of us ignored the advice of the management. It certainly contains turpentine and linseed oil. If not cleaned off properly it can cause a sticky build up. Moreover, some varnishes may actually be damage by its contents.  

 

Thank you Roger for the advice. Much appreciated.

[Bill Yacey]

I used to buy a varnish cleaner paste that Michael Vann marketed. I'm not sure where he was buying it from, but it was sort of a tan color and was a very thick paste that contained a small amount of mild abrasive, probably pumice.

 

It certainly did clean rosin build up well, with a bit of elbow work. It cleaned up dirty bow sticks nicely too.

[Omobono]

It's amazing the 'myths' this product seems to have generated. I remember in the 60's/70's it was widely used and recall someone in the trade relating this story. 

A Panormo fiddle used by a professional orchestra player  disappointing in tone was applied with the 'elixer' over a period of weeks resulting in a miraculous transformation! Talk about quackery.

[Bill Yacey]

Omobono, I'm not sure which product you are mentioning, but the cleaner I was using didn't make any claims for, or do anything for the tone. It did clean well.

[Omobono]

Omobono, I'm not sure which product you are mentioning, but the cleaner I was using didn't make any claims for, or do anything for the tone. It did clean well.

The product is exactly the one shown in the first post here.

There were no claims made by the manufacturer just nonsense about it's qualities - 'upon soaking into the wood'.......?

Obviously it may have contained some very fine abrasive element which appeared to remove rosin build up.

I used it a lot and probably made the mistake also mentioned above of not cleaning it off properly.

[Roger Hargrave]

I do not think that the Hill varnish cleaner contained any abrasives. However, as I pointed out, in the workshop it was used in conjunction with fine Tripoli powder. I was told by Arthur Jeffries that it helped to "feed the varnish", which indicated to me that some of the linseed oil remained behind. This is not something that most modern restorers would want, but of course this all depends on the quality of the instrument being cleaned. 

[Violadamore]

I do not think that the Hill varnish cleaner contained any abrasives. However, as I pointed out, in the workshop it was used in conjunction with fine Tripoli powder. I was told by Arthur Jeffries that it helped to "feed the varnish", which indicated to me that some of the linseed oil remained behind. This is not something that most modern restorers would want, but of course this all depends on the quality of the instrument being cleaned. 

This sounds rather close to using varnish to clean varnish, not an approach I'd ever considered before..............   More of a French polish than a cleaning?

[Conor Russell]

Various 'cleaners' were made by workshops, bottled up, and sold. I think most were similar.

 

The mix the workshop I joined was - a dollop of linseed oil, some Lux soap flakes, a dash of meths, some turps, water, and a drop of perfume. You put it in a big bottle, shook it like hell, and sold it with the advice that it should be used sparingly, and polished till it was all gone. They stopped selling it when an overly enthusiastic player didn't take the advice given, and stripped the varnish off the front of a very nice fiddle in one evening, and came in the next day, to have it fixed.

 

I hate these things. Most of the time, the polish just fills in the gaps in the dirt, and make it transparent, rather like a plaster of Paris ground coat. Even if the polish doesn't damage the varnish itself, cleaning off the resulting rubbery skin almost invariably does.

[FenwickG]

Bill,

Michael Vann still sells this item on his website. It is a fine polish, but like most polishes it should be used with some prudence.

[Roger Hargrave]

I just found this while doing a final read through of the bass blog:

As well as shellac some commercial polish preparations also create a ‘new’ coating, often to the long term

detriment of the original varnish. The Hill varnish reviver that was used when I worked there contained linseed

oil. Others contain worse. The old guard at Hills called it 'feeding the varnish'. In a rather macabre way

that is what it did; some penetrated where the ground and wood was worn away and some remained on the

surface and dried. Long term, these polishes can combine with colophony and dirt creating a thick grimy film

that kills the original varnish in much the same way that an old varnish on an old master painting can kill

the colour of the paints, making them appear muddy.

[Will L]

The old guard at Hills called it 'feeding the varnish'. In a rather macabre way

 

 

I was taught that  "French polishing replaces what has been lost in the varnish through oxidation."  It sounds rather equivalent of "feeding the varnish."  Where that came from originally, I have no idea; sounds very unscientific and dangerous now.

[Mark Norfleet]

Sticky terrible stuff when not removed properly and it starts to polymerize.  I would be concerned about it , and other such products, getting into cracks etc.

[PASEWICZ]

Sticky terrible stuff when not removed properly and it starts to polymerize.  I would be concerned about it , and other such products, getting into cracks etc.

Good to see you here.