Domenico Busan?

[Christo]

Hello everyone,

I've been trying to find out what could be the origin of this violin but no Luthier couldn't tell me somthing definitive.

I hope that some of you could have some idea what this violin could be.

Thank you very much in advanse

Here the link to the pics:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127640485@N02/

[Omobono]

Wonderful to have a post mentioning an interesting maker.

Some high profile violists (Michael tree and Bruno Giuranna) have used instruments by this Venetian which suggests they are highly regarded.

As the the authenticity of your instrument that is another question.

There do not appear to be many instruments of his in circulation.

You should be able to read a little about him and the characteristics of his instruments on the net in various places.

Still an interesting-looking fiddle regardless.

[deans]

Definitely interesting enough, doesn't look any of the usual German etc.

[Omobono]

You might like to read this thread:

http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=8879

[Christo]

Domenicus Busan is a realy intersting maker, as much as I have heard, his work is not very consistent.

this violin sound realy very very good.

I added some inside photos which I made this sommer when bassbar had to be replaced

There is not much information about Busan. The most Info I found in the amati.com arquive.

I hope some of you can give me some clue what this could be.

The paper of the busan label is an old paper.

The other label is a fake. Written in russian on a modern paper whith fake date.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

As I mentioned in the thread referenced by Omobono, I have seen a number of Busan instruments, but had not, and still have not, seen a violin I have been sure of/comfortable with.  If someone on the board knows of one that really passes muster, I'd love to see a photo of it.

 

Here's a Busan viola ff hole for fun:

[Omobono]

This fiddle is given on the Bein & Fushi catalog from 1987 (pretty grainy old photo.....)

 

 

Looking at the two violas owned by Michael Tree and Bruno Giuranna they certainly are very different animals.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

 

 

Looking at the two violas owned by Michael Tree and Bruno Giuranna there certainly are very different animals.

 

Yes... I believe you're feeling my pain.     I know that there have been a rare few violins that have "passed" expertise and are supposed to make sense... but I haven't seen one of them.  Maybe Charles Beare will be able to shed more light on the subject at some point.

[Bill Yacey]

As I mentioned in the thread referenced by Omobono, I have seen a number of Busan instruments, but had not, and still have not, seen a violin I have been sure of/comfortable with.  If someone on the board knows of one that really passes muster, I'd love to see a photo of it.

 

Here's a Busan viola ff hole for fun:DB.jpg

That's a beautiful f hole.

[Omobono]

Putting those two tops together ... hmmm.... certainly some big differences.

 

[Michael Appleman]

I've seen several violins that were purported to be by Busan, plus those famous violas and the double bass that was shown in the Paris exhibition some time ago. If I had been shown those instruments without any indications I never would have imagined that they were made by the same maker.

 

It's strange, but I have the impression that we're seeing more and more violins being certified (or re-certified) as "Venitian, 18th Century" these days, and fewer and fewer named as "by so and so," as though there were a general feeling that the big experts are sitting on a mountain of information that will overturn traditional expertise and attributions. The information is being held "close to the vest" because there are alot of mis-identified expensive instruments out there for which many dealers would be "on the hook."

 

The OP violin is interesting, and has some very attractive features. IMHO, there's nothing compellingly Italian nor Venitian about it, but that's only based on what I've learned so far about Venitian instruments.If and when the famous Beare Venitian maker book is published, I may find my framework totally changed. 

[Omobono]

Are we talking another "Deconet" story here or maybe we shouldn't go there......

[Christo]

Maybe a "dendro" could help alot to find out what it isn't. I realy hope that someday, Mr.Ratcliff can find a moment to have a look on it.

About the F holes:

My opinion, this is not the original shape.

Also When I replaced the fingerboard, also I could see the color of the original varnish, which has less red and is slightly brighter.

And what about If we forget about the label?

What does It looks like ?

I have heard opinions pointing it as South German(1opinion) and also Nord Italian -Turin-Milano(two and more opinions).

And thank you very much to all of you for you input.

[Will L]

I hope we do hear from someone who can discuss Busan with assurance.  It seems to me Busan was irregular enough that he was one of those makers who attracts the crooks to put fake labels in any violin that comes close.  And that complicates things even more.

 

I had a friend who had bought a "Busan" only to be told for years that it was not one.  Then later a fairly high level expert wrote papers that it WAS a Busan, saying only, "Why not."        (I think his response implied there's a lot of difficulty with Busans.)

 

His Busan is nothing like any of the violins posted above; and not like the one shown in Jalovec. 

[Jeffrey Holmes]

 

 

His Busan is nothing like any of the violins posted above.... 

 

For what it's worth, I know a number of Busan violas and a couple 'cellos quite well.  While I'm not at liberty to post a full photo of the instrument belonging to the ff hole I shared (it's owned by someone), I find it is pretty typical and relates to the other instruments by the maker of which I am familiar... they fall into ranks pretty well.  I have not, however, see a fiddle that I feel does the same... at least not yet.  Love to, however.  

[Omobono]

Here is the Michael Tree viola 'f-hole' which stands very proud.

 

[Omobono]

Here is the Busan with an Hieronymus Amati II viola and the Conte Vitale of Andrea Guarneri.

All three pretty much 'bolt upright'.

 

[asovcl]

Strictly FWIW, I own a Busan cello, dated 1774*, with papers from Wurlitzer dated in the 50's, and then more papers from Moennig in ca. 1995 when I bought it there.  In the Moennig letter, Ken Jacobs tells me he only knew personally of 3-4 Busan cellos in N.A., and mine was the only one (in his experience, of course) that had not been cut down.  He also confirmed that Busan was a reknowned maker of basses, cellos and violas.  (IOW, violins weren't mentioned at all).

 

Interestingly, a now-deceased colleague of mine owned a magnificent Busan bass that had once been the instrument of the Principal in Philly, a long, long time ago.  He kept a newspaper clipping featuring the player and the instrument taped inside his bass locker for many years.  After I had owned my cello for a number of years, and both instruments had greatly appreciated in value (at least on paper!), I told him my long-term plan was to sell it and buy a condo overlooking the Atlantic so I could watch the sunrise every morning for the rest of my life (and then go back to bed for another couple hours!)

 

There is another fine Busan owned by a very highly accomplished professional cellist I know of.  (I mean really high level..!)  I don't want to display his name here, but if anyone's curious enough to PM me I'll say who it is.

 

Lastly, I remember reading somewhere that Michael Tree's Busan was owned by someone else, and it was just on permanent loan to him.  This would explain why his last concerts were played on a modern instrument.  This is a common M.O. with some of the top guys, as both parties benefit.  The instrument gains in value from having been the "Michael Tree Viola", and Mr. Tree gets to play a very fine instrument for his career without having to pay for it out of pocket.  (similarly with Yo-Yo's Strad..!)

 

* = When I perform in public, and someone expresses interest in my instrument, I like to say it was made when Beethoven was still a toddler.  That doesn't raise its value, but it often raises eyebrows!

Edited October 18, 2014 by asovcl

[Christo]

I found something interesting in the curent Tarisio auction in London. The Lot 137 looks realy similar to my violin!!! Am I wright?

 

So, realy no one have any Idea what my violin could be? I am realy surprised that nobody made any suggestion what it could be  

 

 

Here the link

 

http://tarisio.com/auctions/auction/lot/?csid=2198110208&cpid=3276800000&filter_key=2650eadc24a0aa14f1b2f22a8cfd913f&sCategory_ID=36

 

or

 

http://s661.photobucket.com/user/christo133/library/Busan%20again?sort=3&page=1

[Omobono]

Don't see any obvious connection.............. except maybe the state of the varnish

 

[twcellist]

I was reading an article about Robert Demaine (principal Cellist at LA Phil) and he mentioned that he has a Busan. I've never heard of this maker either and seems like there is rather limited info on the internet. Would love to know more. 

[Omobono]

The 1781 ex-Bruno Giuranna viola is featured on Tarisio. It claims an original label and dendro results of 1706-1756.

At length of 43.2 cm she's a big baby (same as the " ex-Michael Tree?)

https://tarisio.com/cozio-archive/property/?ID=44532

 

[mendicus]

ex-Bruno Giuranna looks to me it have two (or four if eyes are counting) pieces scroll. Is it true?

[AtlVcl]

21 hours ago, twcellist said:

I was reading an article about Robert Demaine (principal Cellist at LA Phil) and he mentioned that he has a Busan. I've never heard of this maker either...

Source?

[twcellist]

13 hours ago, AtlVcl said:

Source?

https://pclaphil.org/2015/04/20/the-grand-salon/

https://tarisio.com/cellos-piatigorsky-festival/robert-demaine-stradivari/

I’m sure you can find more references on what my friend likes to call “the Google Machine.”