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joerobson

2014 Inianapolis VSA Non-winners

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From my blog posting on this issue:

 

"NOTE: Please realize that I respect the VSA and all the hard work that goes into putting together the conferences and competitions. I have attended many of these events and have benefitted greatly. I also realize that designing a judging system from both a logistical and conceptual perspective must be enormously difficult. My wife and I freely volunteer our assistance should any official from the VSA wish to work on the creation of judging guidelines for musicians when considering bows."

 

And yes, Jerry, you do deserve a well earned break.  Enjoy the lawn chair - you've definitly earned it, but turn down that bull horn!

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Eric Swanson:

my blog posting on this issue:

"NOTE: Please realize that I respect the VSA and all the hard work that goes into putting together the conferences and competitions. I have attended many of these events and have benefitted greatly. I also realize that designing a judging system from both a logistical and conceptual perspective must be enormously difficult. My wife and I freely volunteer our assistance should any official from the VSA wish to work on the creation of judging guidelines for musicians when considering bows."

Eric,

Are you saying that if an official from the organization that has been running this competition for 42 years and grown it into one of the most prestigious competitions on earth, comes to you to adopt an idea that has been tried and failed, then you will volunteer? How about volunteering and see how things are run before believing in a unproven concept?

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From my blog posting on this issue:

 

"NOTE: Please realize that I respect the VSA and all the hard work that goes into putting together the conferences and competitions. I have attended many of these events and have benefitted greatly. I also realize that designing a judging system from both a logistical and conceptual perspective must be enormously difficult. My wife and I freely volunteer our assistance should any official from the VSA wish to work on the creation of judging guidelines for musicians when considering bows."

 

And yes, Jerry, you do deserve a well earned break.  Enjoy the lawn chair - you've definitly earned it, but turn down that bull horn!

I think that Jerry has the experience and training, perseverance, chops, continuing desire for learning, innovative spirit, high-level trainee output, and other proofs to have earned the bullhorn.

 

We might contrast that with some more wordy folks who attracted a large and loyal and highly vocal following of leg-humping amateurs here a number of years back.

 

Swanson, we know each other a little bit, and I'm not in a good position to criticize your comments, except to say that if you put yourself in the position of the VSA board members and volunteers, with all of their background and experiments, it gets really hard to come up with something better.

 

Eric,

Are you saying that if an official from the organization that has been running this competition for 42 years and grown it into one of the most prestigious competitions on earth, comes to you to adopt an idea that has been tried and failed, then you will volunteer? How about volunteering and see how things are run before believing in a unproven concept?

I'd say it's by far the most prestigious, based on having entered and judged a few in other countries, and considering the quality of entries. The VSA isn't the best place to compete if the goal is to paper your wall with easy wins.

So here's a salute to everyone who had the guts to enter, and didn't win anything. Some of you are pretty darned good, in my humble opinion!

 

That said, I don't know much about how bows should be judged. I bowed out :lol: on the bow judging at the Moscow competition, because the quality of some entries was over my pay level.

Had it been various qualities of junk and mediocrity, maybe I could have done a reasonable job. Two of us fiddlemakers voluntarily took ourselves out of the bow judging.

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And only 2 and 1/2 hours via Honda Goldwing .......

And more like four hours on a Harley. Unless you break down, and then it might be more like a month. :lol:

 

However, if you purchase the special expensive extended warranty from Harley Davidson, which includes trip interruption hotel fees and such, they'll turn it around pretty fast. :o

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Wrong again! Sorry, but just because an idea fails in its execution doesn't mean it is a bad idea.

Obviously, but don't you need to know how it was a executed before you make the determination that execution is why it failed?

Why not gather information before making the assumption that your ideas have not been tried? Without knowing the mistakes of the past are you not destined to repeat them?

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I went to the VSA for the first time this year as a player, and only from Thursday night to Saturday. The number of people I met and amount I learned from makers was incredible -- I've had a lot to think about since returning home.

 

There were so many highlights for me as a player, but the ones I can think of off the top of my head include:

  • Stefan's two instruments (DG and Strad) in the "new makers" room. Stefan talked me through his inspiration for them, and as (radically) different as they were, they both played wonderfully. I still think about them, more than a week after the VSA -- and I would have loved to take either home!
  • The sheer number of submitted entries in the competition room. I thought I was prepared to try lots of instruments, but wow! I was immediately overwhelmed as soon as the doors opened Thursday night.
  • Ihle's instrument, which had a crazy amount of grip on the G string. Really fun to play.
  • Many of the amazing instruments and bows in the new makers room.

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I asked this question at the VSA but never got the satisfactory answers.

 

I can understand that workmanship judges can tell if it's good or not by looking at them briefly,

probably 30 seconds or less without interference or distraction from other judges.

 

But how can  tone judges tell if the instrument they playing sound good or not,when other judges also playing in the same room?

 

Also there're no listening judges.

As we all know that what the players hears is not same as audience hears.

What about projections?

 

Any body asked this question to tone judges?

I met a couple of workmanship judges and their feed back was very useful,but anyone met tone judges?

 

And this is a different topic  but I still don't get it why the playing competition and making competition were held at the same place and same time.

 

I thought ,maybe, playing competition winners were going to play VSA winning instruments,but it wasn't the case at all.

 

Koo Young Chung

 

Chicago

 

 

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Choses que j'ai apprises de cette conversation

1) Archetiers peuvent dire si un arc jouera bien en le regardant
2) Les musiciens sont pas capables de juger archets de violon
3) Les musiciens sont capables de juger instruments à cordes
4) Archetiers célèbres font toujours de grands archets de violon
5) Le VSA est la compétition la plus prestigieuse dans le monde, donc un péon comme moi n'a pas sa place en doute sa grande sagesse

 

Merci!!!!!!!!!

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Choses que j'ai apprises de cette conversation1) Archetiers peuvent dire si un arc jouera bien en le regardant2) Les musiciens sont pas capables de juger archets de violon3) Les musiciens sont capables de juger instruments à cordes4) Archetiers célèbres font toujours de grands archets de violon5) Le VSA est la compétition la plus prestigieuse dans le monde, donc un péon comme moi n'a pas sa place en doute sa grande sagesse

Merci!!!!!!!!!

Are you hoping your logic is better in French?

"Bows are tested for playability, but not played"

By the way, I never used the word "tested". Words have meanings, I suspect even in French.

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Eric,

All kidding aside, I have no problem with improving the competition, and in fact have spent many years doing so. I do however believe that before you talk about being able to make it better, you really should know what it is you are improving from. No sense trying the same things that were tried in the past, perhaps you could try something a little different and increase the chances of success.

Why not volunteer for a couple years and get the history?

Along with the research on how to change things, consideration has to be given to the integrity and consistency of the meaning of a VSA gold medal.

I have no affiliation with the VSA anymore short of being a member like everyone else, but I know that the more people that get involved the better the organization will become.

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And more like four hours on a Harley. Unless you break down, and then it might be more like a month. :lol:

 

However, if you purchase the special expensive extended warranty from Harley Davidson, which includes trip interruption hotel fees and such, they'll turn it around pretty fast. :o

 

I feel for you, son ,,,,,,,,  But really,  how is vibration on that HD ?  I have the ST1300 which is very smooth,  but still the posture is partially sport bike.  I decided to go whole hog  (without an HD !!)  because I was seduced by a flat six motor.**  It is smooth as glass and truly comfortable.  But it took a while before it handled as well as the ST.  It is like a violin,  the inputs are subtle,  but they work if you pay attention. 

 

** But maybe it is just a sign that I am getting old ...........

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I feel for you, son ,,,,,,,,  But really,  how is vibration on that HD ? 

 

 

Harley has two  versions of the larger engines now: A rubbermount, and one with balance shafts. Both have just enough vibration to let you know something's going on down there. Not nearly as smooth as a Gold Wing, but you can't even tell a Gold Wing is running without looking at the gauges, can you? :);)

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The "B" twincam motors in the hard mount bikes vibrate a bit more than the rubber mount motors in the handle bars,  but it's a nice vibration... like you feel when playing a cello.  The ST is so tall off the ground! 

(Being VERY careful over here.)

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The "B" twincam motors in the hard mount bikes vibrate a bit more than the rubber mount motors in the handle bars,  but it's a nice vibration... like you feel when playing a cello.

Which one vibrates more depends on the rpm and the load (I have one of each).

 

I like your cello playing analogy! A motor scooter devoid of any vibrational feedback probably wouldn't cut it for me.

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Harley has two  versions of the larger engines now: A rubbermount, and one with balance shafts. Both have just enough vibration to let you know something's going on down there. Not nearly as smooth as a Gold Wing, but you can't even tell a Gold Wing is running without looking at the gauges, can you? :);)

 

Actually,  you can feel a faint hum.   But you are right,  once in a normal freeway environment,  I almost lost my presence of mind and started to get off to see if it was still running.  (Old Joke !!)

 

So that is nice,  the HD soluition.  I started thinking "six" when I rode the new BMW.  Very nice,  but I think the Honda has more sense of quality actually.  All that fancy BMW electrical switchgear says "trouble" to me.  And the dash accents are baby-blue. 

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The "B" twincam motors in the hard mount bikes vibrate a bit more than the rubber mount motors in the handle bars,  but it's a nice vibration... like you feel when playing a cello.  The ST is so tall off the ground! 

(Being VERY careful over here.)

 

Yes,  the ST1300  IS very tall...  and tippy.  I bought a pair of boots with thick soles and pretty high heals.  That is a great improvement.  My inseam is only 29.5 "  The Goldwing feels more secure.  I have to ride the ST a day or two to get back into it.

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ahh well.

All I can say is... back when the things that mattered to me were the two wheels between my legs, I was a old, used, Triumph Bonneville officiate. 

English bikes were, much to my surprise, a fairly great ride - stripped down and stock...

 

Now a days, when I see all the bikes that predominate and the modern riders in Roswell, I cannot help but think that those days are long gone, never to return...

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