Nigo polish

[not telling]

As I prepare to make some Nigo polish I noticed it calls for white shellac, which i don't have. Is this very different from blonde shellac, which I have?

If these are two distinct varieties of shellac, will using blonde shellac be ok...is this actually close to being the "white" shellac referred to in the mid 20th century? Is white shellac a natural product that I should be hunting around for just to make polish?? A cursory googling says it is not, but I don't know.

If I sound like I have no clue, that's because I don't. Tia to those willing to answer such a simple question.

[FiddleDoug]

OK, I give up. I've never heard of Nigo polish, and a Google search doesn't show anything. What is it?

[David Burgess]

I don't know what Nigo polish is either. Is it something Nigogosian used for french polishing?

 

Anyway, there are many different varieties of white and blonde shellac, and they can behave differently based on how they were refined, and the solvent used to dissolve them. For instance, methanol seems to degrade shellac and also shorten the shelf life, compared to pure ethanol.

The most stable shellac I have ever run across was a "charcoal purified" flake product which I ordered directly from Zinsser.

[Stephen Faulk]

My grandfather used to talk about white shellac. He was a carpenter during the Depression and he said sealing the end grain of boards to be used in varnish grade finish work was done with white shellac, while other work that would not show could be done with the garrish orange shellac. The Zinsser Co. was probably one of the main makers of white shellac, which is shellac with the color bleached out. 

 

After the war my grandfather became a commercial building contractor, but he made furniture in his sometimes spare time. While he worked in the garage he smoked Chesterfields and would tell me stories about times and materials during the Depression and WWII. He was an Air Force photographer and set builder for training films during the war. He knew all kinds of chit.  

 

William Zinsser is totally unrelated to me, but he is the offspring of the founder of the Zinsser shellac company. Now this may sound unconnected, but he wrote the book 'On Writing Well'. 

 

White shellac to me means water white clear shellac, not blonde. You can get the cans of clear shellac from Zinnser, but it might have some "stuff" in it. But the stuff is probably not real bad stuff, as stuff goes, so I would get the white Zinsser with the stuff in it. 

 

But what the F*** is Nigo polish? 

[not telling]

I don't know what Nigo polish is either. Is it something Nigogosian used for french polishing?

 

Anyway, there are many different varieties of white and blonde shellac, and they can behave differently based on how they were refined, and the solvent used to dissolve them. For instance, methanol seems to degrade shellac and also shorten the shelf life, compared to pure ethanol.

The most stable shellac I have ever run across was a "charcoal purified" flake product which I ordered directly from Zinsser.

Yes. A "secret" recipe for Nigogosian's polish. Pffft...not at all. It can't be too secret if I have it.

Ok so...these shellacs are not always the same-ish? Blonde shellac is also bleached. I'll try it out, since I have Kremer shellac and that seems trusty for now. I'll google your charcoal-refined stuff though, David...thanks.

Anyone want the super-secret recipe? Yes, Stephen does anyway. We will all make Nigo polish. Fine with me. You all probably make this w/o association with Nigogosian.

2 parts white shellac

1 part benzoin

Fill bottle 20% full with this mixture...fill bottle with alcohol.

I'm serious--that's it. So easy I can do it!!! I didn't want to waste the alcohol if it won't work but I'm going to try this today.

[Stephen Faulk]

Is the benzoin so you can huff it up faster?   

[not telling]

Nyuk nyuk. Benzoin does smell pretty good. But don't ask me why the benzo is in there.

Don't try making it then. I will.

>:-(

[FredN]

Hi nt,, I think any of those names mean the color has been removed. I think the benzoin is to slow the drying when brushing out.  fred

[not telling]

Heh, I know you're right. The benzoin is a plasticizer. I was trying to determine if the white and blonde shellac are the same stuff, and how much it matters if they aren't ( and/or if definitions have changed).

Benzoin might be my bigger issue right now, since mine is dark and therefore impure, as I only just learned. Whyyyyy is this so difficult???

I'm going to have to wait to even make this.

Maybe I'll make Jacques Francais' touchup stuff? I want to make something today.

What I'm doing is the equivalent of giving out a recipe for a no-bake cookie. Everyone knows how to make these, and the making is supposed to require no thought or effort yet be tasty. I won't say what the other recipe is unless someone doesn't know it. I assume everyone does...maybe by another name.

[Stephen Faulk]

Now I want to bake some cookies. 

[Brad Dorsey]

...2 parts white shellac

1 part benzoin

Fill bottle 20% full with this mixture...fill bottle with alcohol...

 

Hans Nebel reveals this same secret polish recipe in his classes.

 

 

...But don't ask me why the benzo is in there...

 

I think Hans said that the benzoin is in there to make the polish easily removable.  For white shellac he uses Zinsser which is available in any hardware store.

[not telling]

Does Nebel say it's a secret? He..."reveals" it? Whoops. Whose recipe does he say it is? Maybe it shouldn't be called Nigo polish. And maybe it did originate with Nigogosian. We could further muddy the waters and call it Super Nigo.

I bet the benzoin does a lot of stuff. Good to know. I have no doubt that good pure benzoin is a really fun material to play with. I really am wracked with disappointment that I have to source better benzoin. I've got everything for a couple other no-cook varnishes though and I might post results today.

Anyway. I thought everyone was making this or knew about it...like the 1704 varnish.

[duane88]

Siam Benzoin

Clearance

Write a review

Siam Benzoin or Laos benzoin is a resin used in the preparation of varnish for violin makers. Siam Benzoin can be used diluted with denatured alcohol or in a preparation with other resins or gums.

Siam Benzoin is a plasticizer that produces hard and shiny varnishes. Siam Benzoin can be added to other resins or gums, it has a really good smell and is antiseptic, fungicide and antioxidant.

Variations (2)

 

From ArtDec.ca

[not telling]

Thanks for the link, Duane. That is a sweet sale.

The benzoin looks great! And lots of the other offerings too.

[FiddleDoug]

I use that polish, but have never heard it called Nigo polish. I also got the recipe in Hans J. Nebel's workshops. I would say that this is a "professional" polish, in that it is applied like a French polish, and if it's not done correctly, could screw up the finish on a fiddle. I always make up the Benzoin solution separately and filter it before mixing with the shellac.

[not telling]

I'll probably filter it all together after a few days.the less steps, the less I can screw it up.

[Will L]

Those too young to have known "Nigo" might enjoy this:

 

http://www.vsa.to/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72:vahakn-y.-nigogosian:-vs

[not telling]

I wish I had met him.

He was clearly great. He had a lot of original ideas. When he got to New York he dumpster dived for tool parts, he was so poor...like using door hinges and crates to make perfect dial calipers, mind-blowing ingenuity. I would have liked to compare stories of dumpster scores and try out the miniscule amount of Turkish I can still remember on him, I think. Anyway, I never met him of course. Did you, Will?

[FiddleDoug]

I just read his VSA buiography. Sounds like he was a comtemporary with Hans J. Nebel in the Wurlitzer shops in NY. He and Hans J. are both founding members of the AFVBM. I might guess that they both learned the recipe for this polish from Sacconi.

[Craig Tucker]

Quote; 

 

"Nigo is the Maestro in the same way as Sacconi was the Maestro for Nigo back in the 1960s."

 

End quote. 

 

Yes interesting indeed, our general history.

[Brad Dorsey]

Does Nebel say it's a secret?...

 

No.

[Will L]

I wish I had met him.

Did you, Will?

Yes.  Probably at the VSA.  I don't recall ever conversing with him about anything in particular.  At the time I was not yet interested in repairs or making.   

 

Looking back, just as we sooner or later regret not having asked our grandparents or parents just one more question,  I am full of regret how little I asked back when guys like Nigo were around.  I think there is a lesson to be taken!    

 

 

 

[DonLeister]

But then Will, you have to ask the right question or you will look like that coyote trying to eat a starburst!

[Will L]

And, speaking of lessons:  Take good notes.    I just went back and found my notes from Nebel regarding the polish in question, and can't make much out of them.  

 

I guess they match pretty much what has been mentioned already.  But I'll add a few things I have:

 

Use white shellac from a paint store.  Check the expiration date.  Wax free will be harder but can add a drop of oil of spike.  Don't buy Benzoin in liquid form; grind it into powder and add alcohol; put in sun and shake once a day for a month; strain impurities many times (cheesecloth) Some "dreck" will still settle to bottom so don't shake before using.*  Alcohol to bring benzoin up to same viscosity of shellac.

 

The amounts:  1/5th of the total mixture is 2/3 white shellac and 1/3 benzoin.  4/5th of mixture is alcohol.

 

Shake before using.  Apply with cotton smock type material; fold flat.  New rag will not work as well as old rag.  Save rags in a jar and use new rags on bad violins to break them in.  Save the old rags for best violins.

 

*I think "using" in this case might = before adding it to the final mixture, since later the instructions ARE to "shake well."

 

Good notes, these aren't, as you can see.  And they're only offered to show how notes aren't very usable if they don't answer all the questions.  

[Will L]

But then Will, you have to ask the right question or you will look like that coyote trying to eat a starburst!

LOL  Hi Don.  I'm surprised you remember that story.  One of my favorites.

 

Yes, you bring up the question of how we learn.  We can't ask much the first time we approach the "Guru," it seems to me.  We don't even know yet what to ask.  I suppose we leave,  and the minute the door is shut we realize we still don't know a damned thing.  Then come back later with more and better questions, and maybe eventually ask only the best ones.

 

But if we don't approach those who might know, and ask the early, dumb questions, maybe we can't get on to the better ones.