2014 VSA Indianapolis Winners

[MarkBouquet]

Here are the 2014 VSA competition results. Congratulations to winners and competitors alike. Your efforts benefit all string players.

http://www.vsa.to/assets/winnerslist2014withnumbers.pdf

[not telling]

Congrats to Roger Hargrave, Michael Doran, Damon Grey, and other MNers (is Jeff Phillips on here sometimes? I thought so.). It's so often the the quiet ones you have to watch out for.

Hope to see some posts of the winning instruments.

[Chris Llana]

I'd like to see posts of all the MN entries, not just the winners.  I'm sure they're all very nice.  Judging is a very subjective business; I'd like to make up my own mind.  I've also heard that antiqued instruments are given the nod over ones that look new.  I actually prefer the look of new.

[Matthew Noykos]

I've also heard that antiqued instruments are given the nod over ones that look new.

 

I don't think this is the case.  I was a scribe for the competition 6 years ago so I got to see the inner workings of the event.  Some of the instruments that got the biggest nod that year were actually unantiqued ones.  Peter Goodfellow did an unantiqued cello that got a gold medal and was a stunning instrument.  There were a few others too.  Of course antiqued ones got awards too.  After seeing how that competition was run, I'm convinced you can win with anything that is done well, period.  

[Chris Llana]

I don't think this is the case. After seeing how that competition was run, I'm convinced you can win with anything that is done well, period.  

 

That's good to hear.  Thanks!

[not telling]

I'd like to see posts of all the MN entries, not just the winners.  I'm sure they're all very nice.  Judging is a very subjective business; I'd like to make up my own mind.  I've also heard that antiqued instruments are given the nod over ones that look new.  I actually prefer the look of new.

I agree with that. I spoke too soon but of course all instruments, any judging comments people are willing to share, etc. I want to see what characteristics, if any, the winners have in common. As you imply, the judge matters. If the judge is scratching their head trying to figure out what model a competitor is copying, that is not good. That is often the case, rather than a judge seeing everything going on and what makes it work aesthetically, as David Burgess was discussing briefly the other day.

And who were the judges? Not that I mean anything snarky there because I don't ( I have to say it!). I mean I didn't know who judged this year.

OT somewhat but Jeff Phillips shared In The Strad how he antiques his violins. Did anyone else enter an instrument antiqued in that way?

[actonern]

I had a chance to see Stephen Quinney's fiddle that won a "certificate of merit" for workmanship just before it was entered in the competition.

 

The quality of medal winning submissions must have been very high indeed.

[DMartin]

Photos and links in Laurie's blog at Violinist.com http://www.violinist.com/indianapolis/

 

Nice view of Jeff Phillips holding his entry. It does look like a lot going on with it.  (Having read the remarks above)

[Piergiuseppe]

Photos and links

 

 

Incredible. They arrived the Martians

[Carl Stross]

I After seeing how that competition was run, I'm convinced you can win with anything that is done well, period.  

 

That's encouraging.  Must it look like a violin at all ?

[David Burgess]

That's encouraging.  Must it look like a violin at all ?

My opinion is that this was a very high-level competition, and many really fine instruments didn't get awards.

 

If the goal is to paper your wall with junky awards, choose some other competition.

[Addie]

 

If you want to paper your wall with junky awards, choose some other competition.

... or just hire me to make a stack of them for you.  They would look more impressive, and be even more meaningless.

[Addie]

P.S. no extra charge for typos.  

[Carl Stross]

My opinion is that this was a very high-level competition, and many really fine instruments didn't get awards.

 

If the goal is to paper your wall with junky awards, choose some other competition.

 

I'm quite sure it's the best. My attempt at humor was motivated by the fact that very little is known about how it works, outside the VSA.

[David Burgess]

One interesting aspect of the convention was an alleged street fight between a VSA conventioneer, and two drunken locals.

 

The way it's looking at the moment, the Salt Lake School folks may be the best street-fighters.

[Carl Stross]

One interesting aspect of the convention was an alleged street fight between a VSA conventioneer, and two drunken locals.

 

The way it's looking at the moment, the Salt Lake School folks may be the best street-fighters.

 

Nice ! Over what, if I may ask ?

[David Burgess]

Nice ! Over what, if I may ask ?

The story goes that the VSA conventioneer was assaulted from behind, perhaps by someone who had loyalty to a different sports team. The VSA guy had a little training in fighting, and that can make quite a difference, versus just throwing alcohol-embravened  punches.

[Barry J. Griffiths]

When word reached the VSA folks 14-16 makers rushed out to the scene. They heard that someone had hit the ground and they just HAD to know what kind of ground had been used. The general opinion was that it was shellac based.

[Craig Tucker]

Once everything has been said and done, the fact that the competition was (and such competitions these days, are usually always) so large and "healthy" - to me - means that violin making is simply not dying, not a thing of the past, and that there are new generations of violin makers, and bow makers, simply making new instruments and new bows.

That the judging is perhaps biased, well, so what?

Right?

And that, life goes on with regard to various neighboring events occurring, where we must deal with the normal day to day bullsheet, where they hold such meetings, well that is also OK. How could it be otherwise?

If you're in it to win, then you may well be into the politics of the thing - but really, who cares?

 

Certainly I don't. And there was a time when I went to such events. The time that was of value to me, was outside the judging (even though I was a tone judge also for some years at the Arizona competitions) where you could talk to the other makers, and compare recipes for varnish, and ask about various woods being used, and plate thickness-ing, rib bending, and etc., etc., etc. 

Also you could play other makers violins, and have people ask about your instruments, and play them. Perhaps one day, the idea that it has to be a competition, in such a mannor will become a thing of the past?

 

Nah! that will never happen!

 

Quote;

This year, the competition has attracted entries from 312 separate makers, representing 26 countries. There were a staggering number of instruments -- 25 judges evaluated a total of 542 entries, including 246 violins, 110 violas, 69 cellos, 9 basses, 80 bows, and 28 instrument quartets. Instruments were be judged over a three-day period for each category.

End quote.

 

Interesting, to say the least.

I would have loved to see and try out some of those bows. (and some of those violins)

Bow makers, I believe, are a large and important part of this ... ahh... this occupation of ours.

Though in the past they seemed incidental to me, at violin related functions, such as the one being discussed - I am now looking at their accomplishments with an appreciation that is fairly "novel" for me.

 

Any way, my congratulations to all of the winners and all of the participants - good for you all! Well done!

[Berl Mendenhall]

I agree there were some amazing instruments there that didn't win anything.  Some were MN folks, don't ask who, I don't want to leave anyone out.  I didn't enter this year, I just didn't have anything I felt worthy.  The sound of the entries was incredible.  When the vendors room opened it was like ants on those piles of tone wood, every man or woman for them selves.  Just a note, there was plenty of nice wood still available just before they packed up.  The exhibiters room was fantastic, so many beautiful and awesome sounding fiddles.       

[David Burgess]

 

If you're in it to win, then you may well be into the politics of the thing - but really, who cares?

 

I haven't seen much evidence of politics being involved in VSA judging. Most of the judges I've worked alongside have been very conscientious about giving the best assessments they knew how to come up with.

 

Sure, many of us are insecure about our judgements, and realize that we may score the same instrument differently on different days. But if a judge isn't aware of stuff like that, they probably wouldn't be a good judge in the first place. In my opinion, one of the worst people you could have as a judge is someone who thinks they are infallible, and who thinks they know everything already. Haven't seen that attitude in a VSA Competition judge yet, even when I judged alongside Charles Beare. Dang, the guy totally blew me away with his knowledge, and he was still very eager to hear other opinions.

 

Incidentally, the old judging computer program was capable of flagging various anomalies, like inconsistent scoring from one judge, on the same instrument, between various "rounds". I suspect that this was used when choosing repeat judges. I don't know whether the same program is still being used.

 

Another thing:

I knew the former competition chairman pretty well. I also know the current one really well, and also the person who is slated to take this over in the future (the VSA has recently instated term limits on official positions, so no matter how good a job one thinks has been done, it will need to change hands). With all of the competition chairmen, I've never seen the slightest hint that any were interested in anything other than the integrity and fairness of the competition.

[Craig Tucker]

 

Sure, many of us are insecure about our judgements, and realize that we may score the same instrument differently on different days, but if a judge isn't aware of stuff like that, they probably wouldn't be a good judge in the first place.

 

No arguments here.

In fact  - I would be willing to bet that mostly, the instruments would all be judged differently, on different days, by the individuals judging.

 

It was explained to me once, that one reason for having a number of different judges giving their scores, was that averaging out the various scores - for each entry - actually made the results much more credible - something that I didn't really believe until I saw that it really actually worked, over and over again... resulting in the same instruments being selected.

 

No nothing is perfect - but we do the best we can.

[Alex l. Reza]

I enjoyed it very much, was happy to meet the people I did, very happy with lots of newly gained knowledge! The quality of the instruments there was incredible. Speaking to the judges one on one is something I value and can learn from. I for one am extremely encouraged. I thought that a great deal of effort and thought was put into running the event and it showed from the judges to the lectures, and all those working it, thank you!

Congradulations to the winners and all who entered.

[Joe Swenson]

I spoke to two judges in the one on ones. The first judge looked at my viola and his first statement was one of confusion. He said he wasn't a viola judge, but was confused as to what "model" he was looking at. As if the first and foremost issue was not picking a maker to copy? He did eventually comment on the actual workmanship.

The second judge made no mention of "model" and just gave really useful feedback. That was the best part. Being able to look at really fine instruments and getting personal feedback.

What I would have loved would have been to pick a random instrument which did not receive an award, and ask the judge to comment on what they did not like for that particular instrument.

There were so many instruments you would look at and scratch your head and wonder what someone could have done better. Impecible varnish and pristeen workmanship. So is there something unspoken as to the judging criteria?

The first talk of the conference was "winning characteristics of competition instruments", however it was nothing like that. No winning characteristics were revealed. They simply reviewed the written judging rules we already read in the published PDF.

If anyone knows what we're actually shooting for with competition instruments, please share!

[Carl Stross]

They simply reviewed the written judging rules we already read in the published PDF.

 

 

Got a link to this PDF ?