What could you tell from these f hole and corners?


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That painting is a portrait of Jean-Philippe Rameau from 1728. He is holding a violin and seems to be painted with good detail so I was wondering if something could be tell of the violin...italian? french? Markie?  :)

 

Taking into account he (Rameau) was already a proud music composer it's not strange that he could be holding a "nice" violin when asked to pose for the painter, is it?

 

 

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Can tell he couldn't paint what he was seeing. Those c bouts look bent around a spoon. Ffs are wonky. And the arch? I think the violin was an afterthought in this painting, not much attention on reproducing exact curves or proportions. There was an attempt to add shadow to hide the poor appearance of the attempt. But that's ok. It's always fun to see violins thought of at all in historical paintings.

Eta: i will try to add to a conversation a tiny bit instead of imposing my rotten mood on anyone reading tbis...here's a portrait of Vivaldi. I know it would be hard to paint a violin. If anyone can really tell anything about the violin in the first painting, or in this one, amazing.

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Eta: i will try to add to a conversation a tiny bit instead of imposing my rotten mood on anyone reading tbis...here's a portrait of Vivaldi. I know it would be hard to paint a violin. If anyone can really tell anything about the violin in the first painting, or in this one, amazing.

Yes I knew about that painting of Vivaldi but I discarded it because there's not carefuly painted.

The one of Rameau looked quite detailed instead

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My take: a talented apprentice who mastered hands...noses...decent eyes. But couldn't apprehend some features of the violin.

Most of the important bits are obscured in shadow. And it may be my phone's view but it looks wrong. The ff eye looks messed up? Probably my phone.

Haha...e7.

The Vivaldi portrait is funny too, but at least looks like a typical pose with a stringed instrument. I wonder if Vivaldi really looked like that...

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All joking aside, the ff's and corners look a lot like a Markie I sold early this year that had the lower ends of the ff's drilled too low, nearly centered on the corners.  It sounds excellent though, the buyer loves it, and I got a decent price for it after she'd evaluated it for several weeks.  For all we know, the violin was unusual and the artist painted pretty much what they saw.

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Well, look close. The bridge is wonky, and the strings aren't centred. It's the kind of thing you would expect to see in a photo-shoot where someone has grabbed the nearest available thing with four strings and a bridge. I don't think it's fair to say the artist botched up the violin lines when you look at the fine detail in the rest of the piece. Its all practically photographic.

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I thihk that the hand positions and relaxed musicality they imply are quite amazing.

 

r.

Especially since the ukulele wouldn't be invented for over 150 years.   :lol:   You can nearly hear "Tiptoe Through The Tulips"   :ph34r:

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 It's the kind of thing you would expect to see in a photo-shoot where someone has grabbed the nearest available thing with four strings and a bridge. 

Right.  How many of us have been approached by artists who need a violin for a model?  I certainly have, and I wasn't about to loan the guy my best for a month.  Four strings and a bridge:  Good enough.  By the time the painting is done, the pegs have slipped and you're lucky if the bridge is within two counties of the violin.

 

It's not like the artist isn't highly skilled, but he must have taken liberties, or lost control, to get a smaller curve in the lower part of the C-bout.  It's as if he didn't know violins all that well.  If you can find the book on the Vollers, one of them could paint pictures of violins good enough that we can name the original violin from his painting.  A fine example is his painting of the "Leduc" del Gesu.  But HE knew violins.

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Right.  How many of us have been approached by artists who need a violin for a model?  I certainly have, and I wasn't about to loan the guy my best for a month.  Four strings and a bridge:  Good enough.  By the time the painting is done, the pegs have slipped and you're lucky if the bridge is within two counties of the violin.

 

It's not like the artist isn't highly skilled, but he must have taken liberties, or lost control, to get a smaller curve in the lower part of the C-bout.  It's as if he didn't know violins all that well.  If you can find the book on the Vollers, one of them could paint pictures of violins good enough that we can name the original violin from his painting.  A fine example is his painting of the "Leduc" del Gesu.  But HE knew violins.

I seriously doubt any claims that the artist 'slipped'. Often you can tell when an artist can't do something they tend to fudge it. Compare the clarity in the Vivaldi painting with the Ramaeu. Other features besides the violin are less well refined. The painter himself would have been familiar with the principles behind the violins' design. Wherever the original is close examination will show the sketching, and possibly alterations made by the painter during the process. Is it possible that neither of them noticed that the centre bouts were upside down? Highly unlikely. Considering the artists apparent ability to paint what he saw, it is entirely more likely that this violin is some non-descript back garden variety early violin that had quirky c bouts. Either that or the two of them had a great sense of humour.

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Gentileschi could paint them but obviously knew little about setup..

 

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I had seen that one too, very detailed work. Concerning setup I think the bridge was actually that close to the tailpiece, it looks rather high so to maintain the string heights over the fingerboard and that reminds me of an article whose link I posted on that forum recently about a movable bridge and a central soundpost...but that is another subject! :)

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Artists are almost always bad at drawing or painting a violin by sight-but so are violin makers.  It's just  incredibly difficult to do.

 

I hadn't thought of that till I started searching for violin paintings. I like that other painting too because of the straight view of the violin. Really difficult to acomplish, isn't it?

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