Spirit Varnish Help

[ViolinLove20]

Hey all,

 

I used spirit varnish on my first varnish job and had a fair amount of success.  My problem was that after only 5 coats the wood grain was almost unseeable, but the darkness of color was perfect.  So, I was wondering if there was a way to thin or dilute the spirit varnish so that I would do more thin coats, achieve the same depth of color, make the varnish more flexible (like oil varnish), but also be able to see the grain.

 

Also any technique for applying spirit varnish would be greatly appreciated.  I couldn't figure out how to have a seamless coating since the varnish would set up from my previous brush stroke before I could connect it to my next stroke.

 

Thanks!

[Craig Tucker]

It sounds to me like the problem is one of transparency.

Different varnishes have different transparent qualities. As do the colorants used.

If the characteristics of the wood are disappearing with subsequent coats, then the opacity of the varnish or the colorant your using must come into question.

In many ways, welcome to the club. Transparency is something that everyone wants in their varnish, and the tendency of spirit varnish to dry quickly... even quickly enough for your brush strokes to remain, after it has dried, is another thing that is fairly common when using some spirit varnishes, regarding this problem, I would always put on more coats than the violin needed and then rub down the surface with various grit micromesh papers until I had a smooth surface...

Oil varnishes usually do smooth themselves out better, but usually require a smoothing out of the surface also.

 

So, what particular varnish are you using, mind if I ask?

[Oded Kishony]

you can thin your varnish and try adding a small amount of turpentine or spike lavender oil to your varnish, this will slow down the rate of drying.

 

Oded 

[ViolinLove20]

@craig: yes! Transparency was the word I was looking for, and part of what I was struggling with. And to answer your question I am using the spirit varnish from International Violin. So what I should do is, after my final colored coat, sand the violin down until I have the level of transparency that I want? When I sanded between coats on this violin the surface took on a milky sheen that dissapeared after the next coat; so if I sand on the last coat, how would I keep if from looking milky?

@Oded: thanks! I'll experiment with both of those materials for my varnishes. Do you have any ratios that already work for you? ( like 5 parts varnish to 2 parts turpentine?)

[Michael.N.]

Make sure it's watery thin, add the spike oil. You can also chill it a little. All will gain you a touch more time with the brush. I put all the coats on in the space of 3 days. I seem to obtain a better result that way, rather than spreading them over a week or so. 5 coats isn't very many when working with Spirit. I'm surprised it proved to be so opaque after so few coats. That suggests either the varnish is being applied too thickly or perhaps you should check the colouring matter. 

[Bill Yacey]

If you can darken the wood with your ground, it takes less colored varnish to achieve color density. I too would question the transparency of the varnish.

[Craig Tucker]

@craig: yes! Transparency was the word I was looking for, and part of what I was struggling with. And to answer your question I am using the spirit varnish from International Violin. So what I should do is, after my final colored coat, sand the violin down until I have the level of transparency that I want? When I sanded between coats on this violin the surface took on a milky sheen that dissapeared after the next coat; so if I sand on the last coat, how would I keep if from looking milky?

 

The surface will always take on a milky sheen when "sanding" between coats - which then disappears with the next wet varnish coat. Light scattering properties of the many many thousands of tiny scratches from any abrasive, causes the "milky sheen" and then re-varnishing gives the surface a clear varnish look again, right?

So, in order to get a clear smooth surface from the (any) sanding operation, or, when using an abrasive, the idea is that a rougher "grit is used when making the varnish surface even and/or smooth - and then a much finer grit (many finer grits, in finer order) are used to finish up, remove those microscopic scratches, and return to a pristine,, transparent, shiny, surface.

 

It's work, and it is not ever done with anything very rough, as any real 'rough sanding' will have to be followed by more coats of varnish.  

I'd say that working with a wet, fine, abrasive, is the safest way to learn this technique - which is a fairly standard varnish finishing technique. I use soap and water and micromesh, or pumice, or rottonstone, or any other of the fine abrasives available.

 

And yes I have, and have tried them all!

 

Some makers use an oil. But I tend to stick with water, and a drop of dishwashing soap as a 

[Michael.N.]

You can try my technique of rubbing down with something around 600/800 grit and then French Polishing with very thin polish. No need for the circles. Straight lines will do, done until all the scratches are 'filled in' with the thin polish. It's much quicker than going through abrasives and you can get a (mere) touch of texture from the cloth.  

[Berl Mendenhall]

Violinlover1029,

Scott Hersey has a very good video on spirit varnishing.  He answers your questions and shows you how to make a spirit varnish.  You can probably just Google Scott Hersey and find his web site.  I forget what the videos cost (around $75.00 maybe) but they are very well done.

[Berl Mendenhall]

Your not going to get much love on here talking about "Spirit Varnish". 

[ViolinLove20]

@Michael:  Thanks, if I ever make it through these tons of ideas I'll be sure to try that also.

 

@ Berl:  I saw that video for sale!  I was very interested in buying it and saw that it had good reviews.  And now since you've recommended it to me I'm going to buy it for sure now.  Thanks!

[Berl Mendenhall]

Violinlover1029,  I don't think you will be disappointed.

[ViolinLove20]

Great. Thanks!

[Michael_Molnar]

You can get Scot Hershey's CD here. If you are using spirit varnish, you should buy this.

 

Mike