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Strange neck angle


Polk
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Could be. In the end, I'm sure you'll agree, this is a matter of taste and to some extent fashion. Both fashion and tastes evolve and myself am not good in either.

I'm not good at fashion either.

My girlfriend (who knows a lot more about fashion than I do) did my hair today. I'm a little scared to go anywhere like this. Should I be?

 

 

 

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Cello is famously played “the other way round” from a bowing point of view, but even there, a solo cellist from one of the other orchestras was there with her Gabrielli 1764 cello, complaining bitterly how awkward it was to change into thumb position, since her wrist (thank “tilt”) always collided with the belly edge. Similar solution, not to mention a queue of Cellists wanting theirs “done too”

Jacob,

You refer to this technique as "Folklore", but can you really argue with integrity if you have it backwards?

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It's a free country, and anyone can buy a Pasewicz/Burgess pseudo “orthopaedic” violin should they wish, or should they find this funny. However if you are fitting up a violin for someone who can really play, or if you are such a person yourself, I would recommend reading and re-reading post #17 by Michael Darnton, which makes perfect sense.

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I have to admit I haven't read every post in this thread... but I'm curious why two techniques/ideas/designs concerning neck setting would polarize a group of makers so completely.  It's two different and useful arrows in the quiver, folks.

 

We have the advantage and opportunity to learn from those in the past as well as those in present... and my experience indicates there are situations in which one or the other approach can be effective.  Why shun one idea and stick doggedly to the other, or criticize those in that past who have approached this detail in a responsible or acceptable way we do not?  Does anyone here not feel the shoulders of those who came before give use the best chance of improvement?  

 

I figure successful makers have figured out what they best for their own making style and model... and I imagine this all is subject for change should they discover an advantage in a different method.

 

Concerning working mostly on "old stuff", I can honestly say I've used both approaches depending on a host of details.  I tend toward a flatter set, and I doubt very much I'd do any tilting of a neck on a wide del Gesu model (trouble for the player), but depending on other things, I might consider a slight tilt on a different sort of fiddle.  I've found just a little tilt can improve response/balance/tension on some instruments... and some players (who actually can really play) do prefer this approach.  I have no idea how much of that preference may be because it's what they are used to, but their fiddles do seem to work well with a slight tilt in the neck.

 

I did notice Michael's American backwater theory...  no... I don't think so.  My violin making school teacher slightly tilted the board to the e side, and he and others who studied there mentioned many Mittenwald makers do so.  The last three resets I've done were on instruments last worked on in Europe.  Two of three were slightly tilted.

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It's a free country, and anyone can buy a Pasewicz/Burgess pseudo “orthopaedic” violin should they wish, or should they find this funny. However if you are fitting up a violin for someone who can really play, or if you are such a person yourself, I would recommend reading and re-reading post #17 by Michael Darnton, which makes perfect sense.

By "really play" you mean like customers of Wurlitzer, Francais or Weisshaar, or a different kind of " someone who can really play"?

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I have to admit I haven't read every post in this thread... but I'm curious why two techniques/ideas/designs concerning neck setting would polarize a group of makers so completely.  It's two different and useful arrows in the quiver, folks.

 

Agreed. The surprising thing to me is there are those who insist that there is only one correct angle for a neck, and anything else is wrong. There are lots of factors to take into account.

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I did notice was Michael's American backwater theory...  no... I don't think so.  My violin making school teacher slightly tilted the board to the e side, and he and others who studied there mentioned many Mittenwald makers do so.  The last three resets I've done were on instruments last worked on in Europe.  Two of three were slightly tilted.

If we're down to citing individual instances, the two del Gesus I was working on in my shop last week, neither a wide one, had dead flat necksets. One of them, by appearance and history, was an old Hill job, the other also probably European.

 

Thanks for your post the other day suggesting it wasn't the time to stick up for me. Apparently, though, by your (none) response to David,'s very next post it was an OK time to continue dumping on me. Grow a pair, Jeff.

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Thanks for your post the other day suggesting it wasn't the time to stick up for me. Apparently, though, by your (none) response to David,'s very next post it was an OK time to continue dumping on me. Grow a pair, Jeff.

 

Concerning the del Gesus; Doesn't surprise me.  Neither of the two tilted sets I mentioned were del Gesus.  One was an Amati and did have a Hill set.  Seems the Hill shop might have had the same viewpoint I do.

 

I'd respectfully suggest you grow a pair yourself, Michael.  What a weak move on your part air this publicly.

 

I mentioned that this wasn't the place for this...  for all involved.  I don't live on this site, don't see everything that goes on (as I'd get nothing else done), and hope I'm dealing with people who will eventually remember they are adults.  I do rely on the report system when things go south and I don't notice.

 

If you wish to debate, with your signature style (which, let's say isn't always graceful, sometimes narrow minded and often needlessly authoritative), I figure you're able to stand up for yourself.  If you can't, change your approach.  I'm not your mother.

 

If you don't like my style of moderation, so be it.  It's a job you quit here after a short time.  I'm still here.  If someone better than I, and willing, steps up, I'd certainly enjoy a well earned retirement.  No one has yet.

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If we're down to citing individual instances, the two del Gesus I was working on in my shop last week, neither a wide one, had dead flat necksets. One of them, by appearance and history, was an old Hill job, the other also probably European.

 

 

You may have missed the point, which was that tilted necks are neither "American", nor "backwater". Both tilted and straight necks show up from a variety of sources, and for a variety of reasons.

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Thanks David.  I did choose to delete.  I have no interest in continuing Michael's old gripe with me in public.  I do find it unfortunate that he doesn't have the respect to keep it off the board.  I have never, and will never, take it to the board he moderates, nor do I go there to argue with his viewpoints, nor to defend myself or this board on the relatively few instances it or I have been referred to.

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I am in no position to tell if America is a backwater or not, and frankly couldn't care less.

Yes, fitting necks like this was taught in the Geigenbauschule in Mittenwald in the middle of the last century, which seems to be the intellectual cradle of large chunks of the Weißhaar book. I would nonetheless have thought that any adult of normal intelligence, could lay a violin on the table in front of him/her, press the E string down onto the tilted fingerboard at the top end, take a ruler and measure how little bow clearance they would have, and wonder what advantage the have from having to reach down with there left hand to reach the top of the fingerboard, or why they have to be so careful not to damage the edge. Even if David tells me to re-read the thread a third time, they will find no answer to this question here.

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I am in no position to tell if America is a backwater or not, and frankly couldn't care less.

Yes, fitting necks like this was taught in the Geigenbauschule in Mittenwald in the middle of the last century, which seems to be the intellectual cradle of large chunks of the Weißhaar book. I would nonetheless have thought that any adult of normal intelligence, could lay a violin on the table in front of him/her, press the E string down onto the tilted fingerboard at the top end, take a ruler and measure how little bow clearance they would have, and wonder what advantage the have from having to reach down with there left hand to reach the top of the fingerboard, or why they have to be so careful not to damage the edge. Even if David tells me to re-read the thread a third time, they will find no answer to this question here.

 

Hi Jacob;

 

With respect, before I reset a neck, flat or not, I check and determine the resulting clearance.  I also understand that any good shop, at any time in history, tends to develop protocol and standards for the instruments they alter and restore.  I've already mentioned that mine is a tendency to set the neck flat.

 

I do believe, however, that these standards should not supersede a reasonable variance from them that would benefit a specific instrument or situation.  I would think any adult of normal intelligence would agree.   :)

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I am in no position to tell if America is a backwater or not, and frankly couldn't care less.Yes, fitting necks like this was taught in the Geigenbauschule in Mittenwald in the middle of the last century, which seems to be the intellectual cradle of large chunks of the Weißhaar book. I would nonetheless have thought that any adult of normal intelligence, could lay a violin on the table in front of him/her, press the E string down onto the tilted fingerboard at the top end, take a ruler and measure how little bow clearance they would have, and wonder what advantage the have from having to reach down with there left hand to reach the top of the fingerboard, or why they have to be so careful not to damage the edge. Even if David tells me to re-read the thread a third time, they will find no answer to this question here.

Great Jacob, this we can work with.

Let's say that there is plenty of clearance for the c bout, and reaching the e string in the upper positions is not a problem because it is remaining in the same place as before our hypothetical.

By increasing the fingerboard projection at the bridge by 1/2 -1mm on the bass side, you gain a little more punch on the g string, you can bring the kidneys closer together, and it is easier to play, why not do it?

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Great Jacob, this we can work with.

Let's say that there is plenty of clearance for the c bout, and reaching the e string in the upper positions is not a problem because it is remaining in the same place as before our hypothetical.

By increasing the fingerboard projection at the bridge by 1/2 -1mm on the bass side, you gain a little more punch on the g string, you can bring the kidneys closer together, and it is easier to play, why not do it?

Quite how it should become easier to play in the high positions on the E string, when you have to reach down further to reach the fingerboard, will remain your secret.

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