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Javaca

Il Canino

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Hello everyone,

I am pretty new here. Although not a violin maker I have been following the topics for a while. Roger's 'bass-topic' finally drew me over to register. I am a young (27) guitar and lute maker, living in the Netherlands.

Over the years it has become a tradition that all my instruments get names. There are guitars that go by the name of "Die Kleine Liebe" (romantic guitar) "Isis" and "Fenix". Currently I am working on a small instrument. One of my friends came walking into my shop and called it "The Puppy". This reminded me of a pattern for a pochette by Stradivari, which he inscribed with "questa e la musura/del canino" (this is the length of the puppy). Because the original instrument is of Italian origin, I thought it would be nice to call it "Canino" or (with Paganini's violin in mind) "Il Canino". Unfortunately I don't speak Italian and neither do the people around me, so I can't determine if this name (and the combination) would be linguistically right?

(Sorry for my English, but it is not my native language)

Yours,

Jan

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Hello everyone,

I am pretty new here. Although not a violin maker I have been following the topics for a while. Roger's 'bass-topic' finally drew me over to register. I am a young (27) guitar and lute maker, living in the Netherlands.

Over the years it has become a tradition that all my instruments get names. There are guitars that go by the name of "Die Kleine Liebe" (romantic guitar) "Isis" and "Fenix". Currently I am working on a small instrument. One of my friends came walking into my shop and called it "The Puppy". This reminded me of a pattern for a pochette by Stradivari, which he inscribed with "questa e la musura/del canino" (this is the length of the puppy). Because the original instrument is of Italian origin, I thought it would be nice to call it "Canino" or (with Paganini's violin in mind) "Il Canino". Unfortunately I don't speak Italian and neither do the people around me, so I can't determine if this name (and the combination) would be linguistically right?

(Sorry for my English, but it is not my native language)

Yours,

Jan

Canino in Italian would be one of you canine teeth. The conical shaped teeth that come to a point. Dracula has overdeveloped canini (plural form). In italian the word for puppy would be cagnolino or cagnolina.

 

I tend to think that it may be a local modification of the vulgar Latin or perhaps dialect of the Latin verb canere or to sing. If Stradivari spelled the word incorrectly, say for example, cantino which is the chanterelle in French, the highest tuned string.

 

Can't say for sure but puppies don't seem to fit in well unless they howl like a pochette. :lol:

 

Bruce

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The Italian for "dog", whether the barking, howling animal or the pejorative, is cane.  Il Cane would be an excellent name for any number of fiddles I've seen offered on eBay.  :lol:

 

Edit-- Nicely done, Rue, though Bruce's alternatives have more local flavor   :) .

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I don't know if Stradivarius wrote that, but "Questa  è la misura del canino" means this is the size of the canine (i.e. dog)

 

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/italian-english/canino?showCookiePolicy=true#examples_box

 

 

And, yes "Il Canino" is grammatically correct. It would could mean either "The Canine" or The Eyetooth (Bruce has already explained which one is the eyetooth). In this case and given the reference to a puppy (cucciolo) it will clearly mean "The Canine".  Cagnolino is the diminutive of cane, meaning little dog. Not necessarily a puppy. 

 

I haven't seen "musura" before. It may be a typo from Jan.

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The Italian for "dog", whether the barking, howling animal or the pejorative, is cane.  Il Cane would be an excellent name for any number of fiddles I've seen offered on eBay.  :lol:

 

Edit-- Nicely done, Rue, though Bruce's alternatives have more local flavor   :) .

...well...then there's also the potential of "Il Ciuchino"...

...but maybe that's getting to far from the original intent...

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I don't have un cane nor un cagnolino nor even any canini in this one, but the paper form can be seen in the Google preview version of Stewart Pollens' book "Stradivari."

 

It's on the bottom of page 140, top of page 141.  Here.

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book "Stradivari."

 

It's on the bottom of page 140, top of page 141.

 

 

It seems to me: 
 
"questa è la misura del Costino"
 
Costino (so to speak dialect) = Bordino
 
Bordino = small edge

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I don't know if Stradivarius wrote that, but "Questa  è[/size] la misura del canino" means this is the size of the canine (i.e. dog)

 

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/italian-english/canino?showCookiePolicy=true#examples_box

 

 

And, yes "Il Canino" is grammatically correct. It would could mean either "The Canine" or The Eyetooth (Bruce has already explained which one is the eyetooth). In this case and given the reference to a puppy (cucciolo) it will clearly mean "The Canine".  Cagnolino is the diminutive of cane, meaning little dog. Not necessarily a puppy. 

 

I haven't seen "musura" before. It may be a typo from Jan.

Thanks, that's what I needed to know.

"Musura" may indeed be a typo, but not from me, either from Srtadivari or Pollens...

The description can be found on page 140-141 of his book about Stradivari. He describes it as "a whimsical sorbriquet that suggest he took some delight in making these instruments".

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The Monte Canin is one of the most beautiful peaks and notes of Friuli. 

 It owes its fame to the war of the Great War. 

 

1024px-CaninDaMatajur.jpg

 

Of these events, the song tells of the Mountain, Monte Canino.

 

montecaninospar.jpg

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Hello everyone,

(Sorry for my English, but it is not my native language)

Yours,

Jan

 

Hello Jan,

and welcome to maestronet. I hope you have gotten your question answered.

(?)

Hey, listen. If you get a chance, post a picture of ll canino here, ok? I'd love to see it.

 

Thanks and again, and welcome here.

Craig T

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Hello Jan,

and welcome to maestronet. I hope you have gotten your question answered.

(?)

Hey, listen. If you get a chance, post a picture of ll canino here, ok? I'd love to see it.

 

Thanks and again, and welcome here.

Craig T

Thanks for the help.

When the instrument is complete I will post some pictures.

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As promised a couple of photo's.

These guitars were made after the surviving templates in the Paris and Cremona museums.

The small guitar was made after the smallest form (E.901.6) kept in the Cité de la Musique. The 'normal' guitar was made after pattern MS. no. 750 from the Cremona museum. The heads were made with the headstock templates from the Cremona museum. This is the first time the forms and patterns were used for a reconstruction, rather than cutting down the existing langer guitars.

I did extensive research after the methods Stradivari used for making his guitars. There are no bars on the back and the instruments are extremely light. The large guitar weighs no more than 500 grams!

Currently I am working on a reconstruction of the largest guitar from the set, after form MS. no. 374. With 770 mm string length this is really a bass guitar.

post-76934-0-20286800-1418247581_thumb.jpg

post-76934-0-25349100-1418248145_thumb.jpg

post-76934-0-58905400-1418248303_thumb.jpg

post-76934-0-53066400-1418248347_thumb.jpg

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How lovely, and what a lot of strings!  Very nice shop too.  Thank you so much for the photos.  :)

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As promised a couple of photo's.

These guitars were made after the surviving templates in the Paris and Cremona museums.

The small guitar was made after the smallest form (E.901.6) kept in the Cité de la Musique. The 'normal' guitar was made after pattern MS. no. 750 from the Cremona museum. The heads were made with the headstock templates from the Cremona museum. This is the first time the forms and patterns were used for a reconstruction, rather than cutting down the existing langer guitars.

I did extensive research after the methods Stradivari used for making his guitars. There are no bars on the back and the instruments are extremely light. The large guitar weighs no more than 500 grams!

Currently I am working on a reconstruction of the largest guitar from the set, after form MS. no. 374. With 770 mm string length this is really a bass guitar.

Beautiful work!

 

It is not known how Strad's guitar templates were drawn.  One theory is that they have the same shapes that you get when you simply cold bend the ribs as shown in the attached photos.

post-44223-0-85257100-1418252869_thumb.jpg

post-44223-0-44100100-1418252894_thumb.jpg

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I see that you have not made a bass yet, but nice to see you anyway Javaca. The Cremonese were obsessed with the inside mould. Cremonese guitars are all the more remarkable because they were also made on an inside mould. Right where the fingers are pushing the ribs in (above), they used a little pin which probably held a wedge that pushed the rib against the mould.

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Roger's right (as always) but the lovely thing in this case, is that the pin was nailed through the ribs at the narrowest point into the mould. Where moulds survive, you see the nail mark, and on the guitar ribs you will find a little circular patch in the ribs to tidy up the hole. - a crude but effective way of dealing with the problem of having no corner blocks! 

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I see that you have not made a bass yet, but nice to see you anyway Javaca. The Cremonese were obsessed with the inside mould. Cremonese guitars are all the more remarkable because they were also made on an inside mould. Right where the fingers are pushing the ribs in (above), they used a little pin which probably held a wedge that pushed the rib against the mould.

I did use the little pins to secure the sides to the mould, and it really works very well. The original small form still has remnants of these pins.

Your articles were very helpful to gain insight in Stradivari's working methods. I learned a great deal from them.

While making these guitars I gained some new insights, which will be published next year.

The main reason to make the bass guitar is that everyone always says it is an impossible instrument (just like the smallest one) and that Stradivarius never made them. (Maybe I am crazy, but I generally don't make forms and templates I don't use).

Another thing that always struck me as nonsense is the much heard opinion that Stradivari made his guitars too long because he was a great violin maker, but guitars didn't interest him very much...

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I did use the little pins to secure the sides to the mould, and it really works very well. The original small form still has remnants of these pins.

Your articles were very helpful to gain insight in Stradivari's working methods. I learned a great deal from them.

While making these guitars I gained some new insights, which will be published next year.

The main reason to make the bass guitar is that everyone always says it is an impossible instrument (just like the smallest one) and that Stradivarius never made them. (Maybe I am crazy, but I generally don't make forms and templates I don't use).

Another thing that always struck me as nonsense is the much heard opinion that Stradivari made his guitars too long because he was a great violin maker, but guitars didn't interest him very much...

 

Please let me know when the book comes out. Looking forward to it 

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Please let me know when the book comes out. Looking forward to it

It will only be an article.

I am thinking about writing a book about building baroque guitars (Voboam, Stradivari and Sellas style). But the only book from my hand that will come out on short term is called "Making Masonite Guitars".

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In English, this is a “dog’s tooth” burnisher.  Museo Stradivariano #705.  Allegedly found in Stradivari’s house during remodeling, c. 1880(?)  I’m writing from memory...

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