Getting a smooth surface for varnishing

[Don Noon]

It has already been mentioned to get the scraper sharpened to smooth razor edge before turning a burr.  A possilbe other source for scratches is dragging some cut fibers under the scraper edge and ruining the smooth surface.  For my finish scraping, I use a very thin scraper, light pressure, and scrape with the edge at an angle to the direction of motion, to be sure the scraper is slicing the wood off cleanly.  I find this especially important on figured maple. 

[not telling]

That is so gross. Moderator!!! Oh wait. It's a rigged system. Never mind.

For me, the thought of pregnancy works fine, but I appreciate your innovative suggestion.

I eat at least a clove a day. I figure I must be immune to pretty much everything by now (and now I know my gi tract is sized too!).

Anyway, maybe you could tone it down a bit.

Have you always acted like a teenaged boy?

[Evan Smith]

For final scraping I don’t put a burr on the scraper.

A finely honed and polished 90o edge on a small scraper will give a clean smooth finish without marks

and chatter or tearout.

A scraper 0.10 mm thick is great for the final smoothing, (after the 90o scraper) it can remove the

imperfections and retain the washboard.(The spring inside of big tape measures)

Also as has been said,,,it is possible to hide scratches and marks with the ground and first coat of varnish.

[David Burgess]

Have you always acted like a teenaged boy?

No. Being a preacher's kid, attending a private Christian school, with parents who both had graduate degrees, my early years were spent being very gentlemanly and scholarly. A fairly normal consequence is living out ones missing childhood later in life.

Why should a violinmaker be "normal" anyway?

[Stephen Faulk]

No. Being a preacher's kid, attending a private Christian school, with parents who both had graduate degrees, my early years were spent being very gentlemanly and scholarly. A fairly normal consequence is living out ones missing childhood later in life.

Why should a violinmaker be "normal" anyway?

  Dude there's a wide gulf  between not acting normal and rubbing garlic all over your crochetal region.  LOL 

 

But what ever puts a high burr on your scraper, who am I to judge!     

[David Burgess]

  Dude there's a wide gulf  between not acting normal and rubbing garlic all over your crochetal region.  LOL 

 

Sounds like you've experimented with it too. Otherwise, how would you know?

 

But as a practical man, no doubt you too found it to be an effective way of curtailing high-risk intimacy.  

 

One surely needs some kind of plan, what with the plethora of rabid violinmaker groupies and all.

[Stephen Faulk]

LOL-  David  Your new nick name is 'Pelotas al ajillo' ........'balls with garlic'.  Not to be confused with gambas al ajillo.. Shrimp with garlic. 

 

As a practical man I follow your logic, but I have my door man and several of my valets deal with excess groupies.     At our instrument makers  pay scale we can afford to have our domestic help deal with those who wish to monopolize our valuable  time. 

 

 

 

I apologize in advance for these teenage boy like comments. 

[not telling]

Sounds like you've experimented with it too. Otherwise, how would you know?

But as a practical man, no doubt you too found it to be an effective way of curtailing high-risk intimacy.

One surely needs some kind of plan, what with the plethora of rabid violinmaker groupies and all.

No, no one should be normal. But I'm surprised your personality is not enough to completely prevent those encounters.

Jk Jk...I'm sure it's difficult to fight them off. But think of the women in this field. I have noticed that Sharon Que is always surrounded. Wonder if she could use a little spray bottle of garlic juice.

I too need a practical solution for the times I'm bent over a bench, since I'm never alone in there. It's important that I be able to protect myself from sneak attacks. A little bowl of raw garlic juice within arm's reach seems good to have (in theory).

Unfortunately garlic is irresistibly delicious for all involved.

[David Burgess]

 But think of the women in this field. I have noticed that Sharon Que is always surrounded. Wonder if she could use a little spray bottle of garlic juice.

 

Sharon wears a wolf eliminator. Isn't that what they're for?

Stephen, watch out for those women wielding electronic stud finders.

[Smith]

On 6/25/2014 at 6:38 PM, Evan Smith said:

.

[Stephen Faulk]

Sharon wears a wolf eliminator. Isn't that what they're for?

Stephen, watch out for those women wielding electronic stud finders.

 Fo realz David, they will find my metal hip replacement and try to extract it to use as a wolf eliminator.  

[not telling]

Sharon wears a wolf eliminator. Isn't that what they're for?

Stephen, watch out for those women wielding electronic stud finders.

That is awesome. That's the only reason i can think of for a wolf eliminator.

But why are you scared of demure ladies like me who want to nail something to the wall?

I'm done...I think some people want to talk about scrapers and such.

[not telling]

I looked up stilettos online a long time ago and only shoes came up. But I guess it's a type of sword. Hard to imagine getting those results from a thicker, shaped version of a cabinet scraper.

Old saws work fine, but I think having some Straddy scrapers would be rad.

Eta...now there seems to be a ton of info on the stiletto. Seemed like only four years ago, there wasn't. ..

Anyway, like Larry I am wondering if Sacconi was right all the time. There are few less obvious ways to scrape dust off wood than a dagger. Lol

[Will L]

Supposedly because of the nature of the metal—being old saber blades—a burr could not be put on the old boys' scrapers.  I have not done comparisons, but would like to know if anyone has?  And if they found that the old type of scrapers required a different approach and led to a more "Cremonese look."  If it would, I'd be looking for sabers tomorrow.

 

One thing about the Stevens violins is they looked very commercial, IMO.  I think the use of sand paper, particularly if he used it three times as Larry described, was the culprit.

[Smith]

On 6/26/2014 at 9:19 AM, Will L said:

 .

[Javaca]

Garlic works fine. It is also used as a seize to paint on leaf-gold surfaces (it's a common technique in the painting of Russian icons).

The garlic does remind me of an urban legend that goes around in the guitar-making world. A young apprentice asks his master how long he should sand his soundboard. The master answers that he must sand untill it smells like garlic. After a a couple of hours the apprentice is tired of sanding and goes home. The next day he goes to the workshop early and rubs a piece of garlic over the soundboard. When the master comes in he shows his work: "Here, it smells like garlic." " Very nice" the master answers; "Now sand untill the smell is gone..."

[not telling]

Garlic works fine. It is also used as a seize to paint on leaf-gold surfaces (it's a common technique in the painting of Russian icons).

The garlic does remind me of an urban legend that goes around in the guitar-making world. A young apprentice asks his master how long he should sand his soundboard. The master answers that he must sand untill it smells like garlic. After a a couple of hours the apprentice is tired of sanding and goes home. The next day he goes to the workshop early and rubs a piece of garlic over the soundboard. When the master comes in he shows his work: "Here, it smells like garlic." " Very nice" the master answers; "Now sand untill the smell is gone..."

That's very interesting. Thank you. I had no idea. Juicing garlic seems like a pain though. I'm trying to imagine how...sieve it freshly pressed thru cheesecloth with a fine screen? Gum tragacanth works so well, and is so easy to make and apply that I can do it. Haha so probably I will stick with that.

Still, I am curious to try it. Should I add anything to the garlic juice? Otherwise that's way too much garlic to buy.

[Bruce Carlson]

That's definitely a possibility.

 

Kallie,

 

I saw a fiddle in the late 1990s from an up-and-coming, professionally trained, professional maker who deliberately scalloped the violin top in very regular, shallow rows, creating a kind of subtle fish scale effect.  It was beautiful.  I also believe that some contemporary makers will scrape the back in such a way as to create a bumpy surface, where the bumps correlate with the flames.  This is in imitation of what you see on some very fine old Cremonas, the Kreisler del Gesu in the Library of Congress, for example.

 

So, there are alternatives to getting a perfectly smooth surface.

 

Steven Csik

Bumpy? Wavy? Something like this? G.B. Rogeri.

 

Bruce

 

[Michael_Molnar]

Correct me, but I saw this maple wave pattern on a very nice instrument by David Burgess. I made one like that too, but not as glorious.

[skiingfiddler]

Bumpy? Wavy? Something like this? G.B. Rogeri.

 

Bruce

 

ripple effect.jpg

 

Yes, exactly like that for the back.  Thanks for the photo, Bruce.

 

I know some makers will create that sort of waviness deliberately for a brand new fiddle.  Do you think the classic Italian makers, when it occurs, did it deliberately or is it a product of time, the wood changing shape over time?  I guess the 3rd alternative would be that the classic Italian makers didn't deliberately make the maple wavy.  It just happened in new making, given the wood, tools and care used.  That is, it occurred in their new making with some wood, and the old Italians weren't going to worry about preventing it.

 

That the waviness can be prevented in new making, if that's the goal, was made clear to me when I asked about it from a well known maker.  The maker replied with the name of another well know contemporary maker whose back on one instrument was wavy, as in photo, while the inner surface of the back was absolutely smooth.

 

Steven Csik

[Bruce Carlson]

Yes, exactly like that for the back.  Thanks for the photo, Bruce.

 

I know some makers will create that sort of waviness deliberately for a brand new fiddle.  Do you think the classic Italian makers, when it occurs, did it deliberately or is it a product of time, the wood changing shape over time?  I guess the 3rd alternative would be that the classic Italian makers didn't deliberately make the maple wavy.  It just happened in new making, given the wood, tools and care used.  That is, it occurred in their new making with some wood, and the old Italians weren't going to worry about preventing it.

 

That the waviness can be prevented in new making, if that's the goal, was made clear to me when I asked about it from a well known maker.  The maker replied with the name of another well know contemporary maker whose back on one instrument was wavy, as in photo, while the inner surface of the back was absolutely smooth.

 

Steven Csik

Hi Steven,

 

A lot depends upon how deep or pronounced the curl of the wood is and perhaps in combination with how long it has been seasoned prior to use. I wouldn't exclude that some of it might be intentional.

 

Bruce

[davidwchandler]

There really are several ways to prepare a scraper for different types of cutting.  Here's what I've found usefull:

 

I flatten the sides of the scraper blade so there are no edges from previous use.  I use one of those diamond embedded tool sharpeners that's about 6" long, 1" wide, has course and fine sides.  I use the fine side.  You just want to go around the edges and and clean the sides up.  Then put the scraper in a vice, and run that same fine side of the diamond sharpener along the edge, keeping it as flat/level to the edge as possible, and gives you a nice clean and flat edge.  I use the back side of an steel gouge (you can even use the shaft of a screwdriver), and draw it flatly back and forth level along the edge, which flattens the edge just enough to force some of the metal to spread over the side creating a cutting edge.  This is a good place to stop if you want a very fine scraper.  Try it out.  the more you draw the edge, the more metal goes over the side, but you can overdo it. 

 

 

If you want to take more material off, you continue to draw the back of the gouge over the scraper edge at slight off level angles, pushing the metal to each side.  This will create a bit of a curl in the steel that is being pushed over the sides of the edge.  When you use a scraper set up this way, the more you lean the scraper over the wood, the more it cuts. 

 

By the way, I recommend you wear leather gloves while preparing a scraper, in case you slip -- otherwise you might just filet a finger!

 

I've found that thinner scrapers prepare and cut better.  The steel in those small exacto saw blades make good scraper material.  My favorite though is a piece of a big commercial saber saw blade I found once, about 16" long and 2" wide.  It (my scraper) has four different curved corners, and one side has a nice long curve, covers about everything I can run into.

[saintjohnbarleycorn]

I've found that thinner scrapers prepare and cut better.  The steel in those small exacto saw blades make good scraper material.  My favorite though is a piece of a big commercial saber saw blade I found once, about 16" long and 2" wide.  It has four different curved corners, and one side has a nice long curve, covers about everything I can run into.

 

my favorite also, I believe it is a reciprocating commercial hacksaw blade, the band saw type hacksaw put them in the antique mode. 

[Craig Tucker]

I've been waiting for a while to post this, since this subject is an interesting one for me.

 

Sandpaper is a very useful tool, even though it's use is fairly well prohibited on violin making sites.

It is simply used correctly, and can be used for getting a smooth surface for varnishing, even if you scrape over the surface, finally.

Nothing wrong with sandpaper used correctly.

It is also very useful for edgework.

[Bill Yacey]

Sounds like you've experimented with it too. Otherwise, how would you know?

 

But as a practical man, no doubt you too found it to be an effective way of curtailing high-risk intimacy.  

 

One surely needs some kind of plan, what with the plethora of rabid violinmaker groupies and all.

Be very careful with garlic. Garlic is a well known aphrodisiac and pheromone among the Ukrainian population .