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Roger Hargrave

Easy, or at least easier!

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Love the letter opener.  Very clever.

 

... Roger, I don’t know that one.  Do you have the Museo #? 

Hi Addie,

 

it's MS228. 48.4 cm x 1.8 cm and about as thick as a rib. On it is written: "Longhezza della fassa della viola C" [length of the rib of the viola C (C likely means contralto)] longhezza and fassa in current Italian would be lunghezza and fascia.

 

I'll have to dig out some of my tracings to give you further measurements.

 

I think it is obvious but worth pointing out that the Cremonese predominantly have one piece lower and upper ribs. This means that the last 2.5 to 3 centimeters of rib from both ends of each prepared piece will be the points with the sharpest curves. This is because each end will be bent to fit one of the corner block curves. The measuring template will also allow you to more easily choose where you would like to cut the rib to avoid areas that would have a flame or curl that is too deep and consequently could present greater difficulty in bending and be more prone to kink or break in the process; especially at the upper c-bout curve. Stradivari often chose a type of wood for the ribs with a fairly broad curl but not too pronounced. This wood does not always match the wood of the back or of the head.

 

Bruce

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#228... got it.  That’ll be in the patterns, not the tools, where I was looking.

 

Thanks.  I’ll post a photo if I find it.

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Hi Addie,

 

it's MS228. 48.4 cm x 1.8 cm and about as thick as a rib. On it is written: "Longhezza della fassa della viola C" [length of the rib of the viola C (C likely means contralto)] longhezza and fassa in current Italian would be lunghezza and fascia.

 

I'll have to dig out some of my tracings to give you further measurements.

 

I think it is obvious but worth pointing out that the Cremonese predominantly have one piece lower and upper ribs. This means that the last 2.5 to 3 centimeters of rib from both ends of each prepared piece will be the points with the sharpest curves. This is because each end will be bent to fit one of the corner block curves. The measuring template will also allow you to more easily choose where you would like to cut the rib to avoid areas that would have a flame or curl that is too deep and consequently could present greater difficulty in bending and be more prone to kink or break in the process; especially at the upper c-bout curve. Stradivari often chose a type of wood for the ribs with a fairly broad curl but not too pronounced. This wood does not always match the wood of the back or of the head.

 

Bruce

 

 

#228... got it.  That’ll be in the patterns, not the tools, where I was looking.

 

Thanks.  I’ll post a photo if I find it.

 

 Hi Bruce and Addie,

 

where do you find those numbers of stradivarian's artefacts?

I only have the catalog included in Sacconi's book, is that are you referring to?

 

Davide

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Yes those are the ones Addie and Bruce is more or less confirming what we mentioned in our private mail exchange; especially about the one piece ribs. I do have a slide of the marks left on the inside of the rib, but this was not my discovery. I will need to find it and scan it, if I can find the time. I have never seen or heard anyone else having seen anything similar. However, removing Strad ribs from their blocks is a rare event and notoriously difficult job. It is one of the reasons why I suspected Casein. Although the mark is obvious when you know, unless you are aware you could easily miss it.

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Here's a simple one that I made only about a year ago, and I really love it. Not original, probably, but I don't remember seeing one like it before.

 

post-44655-0-82514100-1402088622_thumb.jpg

 

I find it a lot easier to use than a ruler when setting (or checking) a violin neck. 

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Sacconi did the initial catalogue, so the old Museo Stradivariano numbers are the same as in I Segriti.

 

Here is one more pic of the cello stick.

 

 

post-35343-0-28458100-1402088942_thumb.jpg

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 Hi Bruce and Addie,

 

where do you find those numbers of stradivarian's artefacts?

I only have the catalog included in Sacconi's book, is that are you referring to?

 

Davide

Hi Davide,

 

The numbers in the Sacconi Stradivari book with an MS (Museo Stradivariano obviously) placed in front of it makes up the complete number. It's the last item for the form and the group of patterns for the construction of the viola contralto. Look on page 205 in the Sacconi Italian edition, French edition and English edition. German edition on page 192. The number is also 228 in the catalog for Il Museo Stradivariano di Cremona, published by Electa in 1987 page 52.

 

Bruce

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Sacconi did the initial catalogue, so the old Museo Stradivariano numbers are the same as in I Segriti.

 

Here is one more pic of the cello stick.

MS289 is for the rib heights on the forma B cello and one other measurement.

 

Bruce

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Hi Davide,

 

The numbers in the Sacconi Stradivari book with an MS (Museo Stradivariano obviously) placed in front of it makes up the complete number. It's the last item for the form and the group of patterns for the construction of the viola contralto. Look on page 205 in the Sacconi Italian edition, French edition and English edition. German edition on page 192. The number is also 228 in the catalog for Il Museo Stradivariano di Cremona, published by Electa in 1987 page 52.

 

Bruce

 

Thanks to all for the replies.

 

It seems that the catalog Il Museo Stradivariano di Cremona is no longer available (out of print) but I believe it is only a republication (by Andrea Mosconi if I remember correctly) of the one in the Sacconi book, so I suspect nothing new on the subject.
 
Do you think it is worth having and reading such book?
 
 
Davide
 

 

P.S. The absence of a catalog is definitely an unforgivable lack for the new Museo del Violino, along with its awful drawers........ <_<

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Thanks to all for the replies.

 

It seems that the catalog Il Museo Stradivariano di Cremona is no longer available (out of print) but I believe it is only a republication (by Andrea Mosconi if I remember correctly) of the one in the Sacconi book, so I suspect nothing new on the subject.
 
Do you think it is worth having and reading such book?
 
 
Davide
 

 

P.S. The absence of a catalog is definitely an unforgivable lack for the new Museo del Violino, along with its awful drawers........ <_<

Ciao Davide,

 

The numbering of the items in the Italian version of Sacconi 'I Segreti di Stradivari' is correct.

 

Bruce

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Do you think it is worth having and reading such book?
 
Davide
 

 

The catalogue NO! The Saconni book is worth its weight in ... never mind the gold, it's worth its weight in German Government Bonds. 

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The catalogue NO! The Saconni book is worth its weight in ... never mind the gold, it's worth its weight in German Government Bonds. 

 

I had seen this catalog many many years ago when it was still available at the bookshop, but then I decided it was not worth the expense.

 

Instead my Sacconi "first edition" is well worn and the investment of 25,000 lire (about 13 euro) in 1980 was well rewarded......and continues to pay off :)

 

 

Davide

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I had seen this catalog many many years ago when it was still available at the bookshop, but then I decided it was not worth the expense.

Instead my Sacconi "first edition" is well worn and the investment of 25,000 lire (about 13 euro) in 1980 was well rewarded......and continues to pay off :)

Davide

Davide,

the catalog doesn't have any measurements, Sacconi does.

Bruce

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| P.S. The absence of a catalog is definitely an unforgivable lack for the new Museo del Violino, along with its awful drawers........ <_< |

 

I found both the drawers and the photography restrictions terribly frustrating. 

 

Doug, I really like your rib mould idea.  Do you also use your spindle sander for the corner block shaping?

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Hi DoorMouse, thanks! I certainly do use the spindle sander for my blocks, so I can thoughtlessly have perfect blocks in seconds. My spindle sander is new, it's the first time I've done my corner blocks this way. It worked perfectly for the ribs I showed in my previous post.

 

post-76570-0-38575800-1402493652_thumb.jpg

 

 

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Another example is the rib thickness planing board, with two strips of the required thickness for the plane to run on. Also on MN somewhere. Simple, but effective. 

And of course any nice tips like wetting the area being gouged. Obviously not too wet, otherwise you may warp the plate and NEVER EVER WET BELLIES. 

 

 

Just a teeny tiny bit more about this if you don't mind.

I've got a stack of rib material that I need to thin, and I have used another method for thinning in the past.

Usually I cut the rib material in long strips and thin on the power sander...

 

Ok, so call me a coward, up until now I haven't thinned them with a plane but I want to start on this stack.

I'm assumng that the plane used is the one in the photo?

It runs diagonally on the side strips?

No tear out?

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Hi DoorMouse, thanks! I certainly do use the spindle sander for my blocks, so I can thoughtlessly have perfect blocks in seconds. My spindle sander is new, it's the first time I've done my corner blocks this way. It worked perfectly for the ribs I showed in my previous post.

 

attachicon.gif2b_ribs_47.jpg

 

Yep.

 

This works, and is way fast, I agree.

Though I don't use a spindle sander, exactly... unless you are calling a drill press with a spindle on it a spindle sander?

I do want eventually to get an actual spindle sander.

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Yep.

 

This works, and is way fast, I agree.

Though I don't use a spindle sander, exactly... unless you are calling a drill press with a spindle on it a spindle sander?

I do want eventually to get an actual spindle sander.

 

 

Hi Craig, I'd call the drill press a spindle sander if you are using it the same way. :) I bought a spindle sander, it looks like this (excuse the rug :) )

 

post-76570-0-09212400-1402519764_thumb.jpg

 

The spindle doesn't only rotate, but it goes up and down too, so it doesn't sand any grooves into the blocks if the paper is uneven in height due to wood being stuck to it, or just made unevenly. It was pricey, at around $230, but I have found a lot of uses for it, like making jigs, templates and even thicknessing ribs. It comes with several different sized spindles.

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The spindle sander generates a lot of dust. I do not think your spouse will like operating that on the rug.

 

 

Haha, it's not where I use it, I just photographed it when I got it. :) Notice I have a shopvac hose attached, I wear a dust mask, but I have never seen any dust with the shopvac going. It's extremely effective at sucking dust from around the spindle.

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... I want to ask if anyone has ideas that they would like to share. Ideas that really do save time; don’t cost the earth and don’t take hours to make.

 

This thread has been dormant for over a year, but I came across it when looking to see if I had posted photos of a thingie I just used to round off the endblocks where they attach to the ribs.  That is a job I have always hated, trying to get a smooth radius, square to the plane of the plates.  So I came up with this (I probably HAVE posted it somewhere before, but here it is again):

post-25192-0-69993800-1447906070_thumb.jpg

 

It's one of the few tools that I have that I think actually reduces total time on the job (including the time to make and set up the tool, which is very minimal for this one).

 

Edit:  I DID post this before... What's on your bench Mk4, June 2012

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Don,

 

I do this too on a spindle sander. By chance, I have today three garlands (!) waiting for this shaping. IMO, it's all nonsense that we must use a gouge. 

 

Agreed!

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A sanding disk plate on a table saw also makes short work of this step.  Looking down on the sweep of the arc one can quickly and by eye get it done...

 

 

post-24591-0-84456700-1447947923_thumb.jpg

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