Easy, or at least easier!

[Roger Hargrave]

Something that I have in common with most amateurs is that I am almost always making a new model. Consequently unlike Stradivari I seldom need to set myself up for mass production. Even a brief visit to the Strad museum tells us that this is what Strad was trying to do. His templates patterns and the like were conceived with the idea that many instruments could be produced quickly and efficiently and that these instruments would be virtually identical. A number of his tools and gadgets were designed for single purpose use, on one specific model or type of instrument. A good example is the template that marks the length of the ribs and the point at which they are to be bent. I am sure that Addie has a picture of this. How many of us would even bother with such a tool.

When I was at the violin making school, myself and many of my fellow students became what I termed ‘gadget men’; an often seriously debilitating affliction. For some reason the female students were never quite so badly affected by this ‘toys for the boys syndrome’. Now clearly gadgets can be useful, but over the years I have observed many violin makers who have spent a huge amount of time making and refining gadgets which in the end were more or less worthless and hardly ever used. Indeed in very many cases making a gadget wastes far more time than is ever saved by their use.

Some of you will be aware of my infatuation with traditional methods and my insistence that most jobs, especially one off jobs, can be done much faster by hand than the time it takes to set up a gadget or machine.

Now of course this was probably not the case in Strads workshop, where mass production was the goal. Neither would it be the same for many professional makers who set up machines of all kinds to save time and energy, when, like Strad, they are repeatedly making the same model.

So what is this preamble about? Well it’s about that word again. In spite of my prolonged explanation few people seem to want to believe me when I use the word easy. Well I must assure you that this expression does not only apply to how easy I find a particular job. It also applies to the many students that have worked in my workshop. Easy is a good word. I like an easy life, because basically I am a lazy B.

In fact, I really believe that violin making is often made far more complex than it needs to be. It is basically a relatively simple craft. To make a good violin you do not require an enormous amount of tools and gadgets. It can be done on a kitchen table. In fact, I have seen it being done on a kitchen table, over and over again. With that in mind I want to ask if anyone has ideas that they would like to share. Ideas that really do save time; don’t cost the earth and don’t take hours to make. Perhaps a simple gadget, like my V shaped board that can be used for several jobs, a gadget that takes only minutes to make and will provide a lifetime of service.

One of the greatest exponents of this genre was Jacob Saunders dad, Wilf Saunders.

[Walter van der Hee]

Nice read, but the real amateur is me and a lazy b. as well :-)

Before I started my first I spend quite some time on making useful gadgets, the one that took a lot of time and was supposed to be really needed, was a carving board. Some highly sophisticated thingy to attach the plate to for carving. I never used it, simply attaching a piece of scrap wood to the back of the plate with some screws and then vice it onto my 30 euro black & decker workmate and carve away.

True, for the hollowing you need another way of attaching.

[Rue]

... unlike Stradivari I seldom need to set myself up for mass production. Even a brief visit to the Strad museum tells us that this is what Strad was trying to do. ..

 

OMG!!!  Strads are FACTORY violins!!!! 

 

As far as simple tools go...I can't help with violin making...sorry! 

[David Burgess]

My rib planing jig is pretty simple and handy. You can see that the metal shaft of a wooden cam clamp has been permanently inserted into the planing board, and that the rib can be attached and removed or re-positioned super-quickly.

 

A protrusion on the bottom of the board clamps into the bench vise.

 

You may or may not want the Formica facing. My board was cut out of an old counter top, so the facing was there anyway.

 

I don't think it can be made in minutes though... I may have spent as much as a half hour on it.

 

[Peter K-G]

Kitchen table and home made tools is easy and works fine (I miss my old tools)

 

 

I made 3 violins with this set

[Addie]

Love the letter opener.  Very clever.

 

... Roger, I don’t know that one.  Do you have the Museo #? 

[skiingfiddler]

Something that I have in common with most amateurs is that I am almost always making a new model. Consequently unlike Stradivari I seldom need to set myself up for mass production. Even a brief visit to the Strad museum tells us that this is what Strad was trying to do. His templates patterns and the like were conceived with the idea that many instruments could be produced quickly and efficiently and that these instruments would be virtually identical. A number of his tools and gadgets were designed for single purpose use, on one specific model or type of instrument.

 

Is there another, additional possibility to explain why Stradivari felt the need to use more gadgets than most violin makers might need, besides the explanation that he was looking for quick and efficient reproduction?

 

Of all the various models, in terms of outline, the Stradivari model, with its hooked corners and irregular line to the c-bout outline (a mixture of straight and curved line), is the most complex.  The outline of an Amati (and thus the Guarneris, too) is simpler and more regular in its corners and c bout curves.  A Maggini is simpler still with its next to nothing corners.  I've read, here on Maestronet, that some beginning makers will have trouble bending the c-bout ribs of a Stradivari model to get that hooked corner.  The sharper turn makes cracking the rib more likely.  And conceptually, how much do you hook those corners?  That's something a maker working with a Amati or Maggini outline worries less, or not at all, about.  Both conceptually and in execution, the Stadivari model seems the most difficult.

 

Take a maker who is using a Strad model and let him simplify the outline  --  ie, corners more straight out, more symmetrical, more like a 2 equal sided triangle, and more regular curves elsewhere -- and you have something that starts to look more like an Amati than Strad.

 

But Strad wanted a distinctive model, even in the 1660s and 70s when the predominant model was the Amati.  So, he had to insure that the shop wouldn't stray from that distinctive Strad model, and thus he had all the gadgets to guarantee sticking to that more difficult model and being able to do it efficiently while working quickly.

 

Steven Csik

[Peter K-G]

The gadgets were for his employees, that's what I would do

 

Roger,

 

Your purfling cutters shown in the other thread are interesting, but they don't beat my home made one in speed. I'm going to retire the new one i bought a year ago and make a better copy of the old one. It has three blades (standard utility knife) side by side = the with of the purfling. I can make the purfling groove in two cuts  without a groove cleaner. The depth is also set to 2 mm.

 

[jim mcavoy]

One of my gadgets is a plate sized box and is filled with wet level-best (plaster like)....put saran wrap on the plate top and sink it into the level best ..and let it set ...it holds the plate fast for gouging the hollow out and is easy to take out for measuring (with or without side clamps)I like to coat the mold with a rubber cement to make it non-marring

Jim

[skiingfiddler]

The gadgets were for his employees, that's what I would do

 

 Yes, that's what I was thinking, too.  The gadgets guaranteed a distinctive Stradivari model as output, even when the hands making the instrument weren't Antonio's.

 

Steven Csik

[David Burgess]

 I've read, here on Maestronet, that some beginning makers will have trouble bending the c-bout ribs of a Stradivari model to get that hooked corner.  The sharper turn makes cracking the rib more likely. 

It's not difficult at all once you've had someone show you "live" how to do it. I don't think I've broken a rib in decades. If someone was bending the ribs for Stradivari, I'll presume that they were shown how.

[Smith]

deleted

[Javaca]

I am familiar with the 'gadget' syndrome. At school my teacher had his own little devies for everything. It was nice and worked quite well, but when I started out for myself I found out that it would take a lot of money, space and the better part of a year to make all these things.

Living in a small home and useing a small shop required me to work as efficiently as possible with the tools at hand. It was also a great way to re-think the techniques learned at school. Now I almost don't do anything the way my teacher did. In a way it refined my technique.

I've made one of the Stradivari tools that was disqualified at school as "being unuseable" (the "hole-puncher") and use it with great satisfaction. It is a real timesaver when thicknessing guitar tops, backs and sides.

[pbelin]

This is another subject, I know, but the top curve of Strads C ribs often shows a crack... I don't think it was made in the bending process though.

[Michael_Molnar]

I can see Roger tossing and turning in the middle of the night, worrying that someone out there is building a "gadget". I feel so much better knowing he is worrying about the gadget guys and gals. 

[Michael_Molnar]

This is another subject, I know, but the top curve of Strads C ribs often shows a crack... I don't think it was made in the bending process though.

If you look at Francois Denis' book you will see why those c-bout ribs crack. There is a distinctive kink in the upper c-bout that purists incorporate in their reproductions. 

[not telling]

The obvious...the one everyone already uses...the Strad punch tool: saves loads of time and forces one to let go of the preciousness factor. It is scary to trust it at first, but then it's awesome.

I will have to see what my husband thinks. Everything in his shop seems normal to me. He did make a lot of his tools though, either from scratch or regrinding. I'll be back to report his thoughts on time-savers.

This is a great topic.

[Roger Hargrave]

I think that most of you guys are missing the point here. Yes of course Strads gadgets were for the workers. So were his drawings and templates. The only things that you need to make a Strad copy from his drawings are a pair of dividers a straight edge and a scriber. This is because he was geared up for the production of identical instruments. 

I am not looking for machines and complex gadgets. There are enough of those about. And although I am always inspired by kitchen table makers, neither am I looking for crude first time tools, as interesting as they are. I am looking for simple things that can help both first timers and old timers like me, items that don't cost a lot of money time and effort. What I am looking for are gadgets that are easy to make and do a good job. For me David's rib holder falls into this category. The plaster holder of saemmc is a nice Idea, but as I have shown on the bass blog, a carving back board is much easier. Admittedly some people find it a little insecure the first time they use one, but it is undoubtedly easier to check your work and work quickly with no complex set up. I made mine from scrap wood and I have arched and hollowed at least 100 instruments with it, as can be seen from the photo. 

Another example is the rib thickness planing board, with two strips of the required thickness for the plane to run on. Also on MN somewhere. Simple, but effective. 

And of course any nice tips like wetting the area being gouged. Obviously not too wet, otherwise you may warp the plate and NEVER EVER WET BELLIES. 

[nertz]

Is this the sort of thing you had in mind Roger….inspired by the drawing for a cello scroll from Strads workshop I made this to make plotting out heads easier and faster….I’m not for a moment claiming I’m the first to make this sort of gadget from a solid material, its just I’d never seen one other then on a worn piece of paper in colleagues workshops.

[Conor Russell]

I think I've shown these before, but here's how I hold my plates for carving.

 

The brass pins are dropped into holes in the bench. I make two holes in the plate, and it just sits down on the pins. There are no clamps to get in the way when carving the plate.

 

I used do all my hollowing out with the two bits of tongue and grooved floorboard screwed to the bench. The near one pivots on a single screw, and will hold any plate. I still use it to hold the box when I'm sinking the edge. a bit of chalk in the grooves gives it grip.

 

I've probably wasted about a month of my life looking for my tuning fork, so now it's screwed in under the corner of the bench. I pluck it, and the bench sings an A for ages!

[David Burgess]

This may offend Roger (at least I hope so ) but you'll notice in the background that my gouges are stuck to a velcro strip. Quicker to grab and replace than some kind of rack. Heck, if I'd thought of it, I could have covered more of the wall with velcro and glued the other part of the velcro all the way around the handle. Then I could just fling the gouges at the wall and have them stick.

 

[Doug Cotterill]

I'm a bit embarrassed to show this, because I think bending ribs is easy enough anyway, but I came up with a way to bend ribs faster, and it's so easy that my grandmother could easily do this job for me if she was still with us. The last lot of ribs I bent were done with hardly any thought, and little effort. This is no use to anyone who already bends ribs without thinking about it.

 

I made these blocks which conform to the outline of my mould. I have 2 rib moulds for this model, both exactly the same as each other, since they were screwed together as one when I made them. (please ignore everything else in the photo, I have no bench space right now.)

 

 

I just bend a rib any ol' how, without much care, not even attempting to get it close to the block:

 

 

 

Then I just press it into the bending iron, and in a short time the rib conforms to my block. There is no going backwards and forwards between the iron and the mould to check the curves. When it fits the block, it fits the mould. Also, there is no twisting, since the curve in the block is square (it was sanded with my spindle sander).

 

 

 

As I said, because the blocks conform perfecty to my moulds, I save time because I don't need to go backwards and forwards between the mould and the bending iron, and I can bend without twist. My last two sets of ribs I bent without even thinking, and faster than ever. Holding the block, there is even less chance of getting burnt. Accuracy was not sacrificed in any way.

 

 

The blocks took around 10 minutes to make, cutting out on the band saw, and sanding with my spindle sander.

 

[Berl Mendenhall]

Small flip up bench stop. Very handy when sawing small things like sound post material and cleats.

[David Burgess]

I'm a bit embarrassed to show this, because I think bending ribs is easy enough anyway,

You must have been emboldened by the realization that it's impossible to put up anything sissier than Velcro tool hangers.

[Peter White]

When I studied violin making in Communist Poland there were no tools or supplies available. The first thing I noticed in the shop in Cracow was that the master had no power tools, a coal burning stove, and a handful of gouges and scrapers and files--about a small bag full. Yet he produced a fine violin in a week or less. A cello in ten days. So when I returned to the states, I tried to keep it as simple (even primitive) as possible.  The reward of this was learning to do things by hand.  However, over time I acquired tools to make things easier--like a bandsaw and drill press, etc. I did not have the life-long experience and talent of my teacher. Then, I found I used fewer and fewer hand tools--the same knife, a few gouges, a couple of scrapers. My students have always tried to invent gadgets, and some of them become gadget makers, not violin makers. I resist stopping my work to make a gadget because I actually love my favorite hand tools, my simple carving board and cradle, my record hand plane, my no. 3 (?) Lie Neilson plane, a German 25 mm knife, and Frank Mittermier gouges, the green German caliper and some steel from a saw for scrapers, a strip of lead for bending ribs, and a 40 watt light bulb in a tin can for heating glue. I have made about 230 violins, some pretty awful and now some pretty good.

I guess my point is that learning to use simple tools is good, power tools are essential now, and gadgets generally distract.  I feel the necessity to teach my students to use these simple tools and use their mechanical engineering skills in their engineering classes.

 

I am making my second Tuscan Strad following Francois Denis' models (the G pattern)  The upper corners are really a tight curve, but a little water and a strip of lead backing helps to prevent cracks.  Still, it is a sharp turn!!! 

 

Peter White