The sound of a shoulder rest

[Lars Silen]

By chance I happened to notice an interesting effect of the shoulder rest today when playing my #4 Guarneri copy. I noticed that the sound was strangely nasal ... l didn't like it. First I thought that this could be due to the room acoustic, this was in an old summer cottage where the acoustics was unfamiliar, cold the room dampen higher frequencies causing the nasal sound?

I happened to notice that I had brought two shoulder rests with me, this was a shoulder rest I seldom use. When switching to the ordinary shoulder rest or playing without the shoulder rest the nasality disappeared.

After some experimentation I noticed that I normally use the shoulder rest slightly diagonally over the bottom. The size of the other shoulder rest was different causing me to mount it perpendicular to the 'spine' of the violin across the lower bouts. This seemed to cause the nasality. When making the mounting more diagonal the sound brightened and the normal sound of the violin returned.

Question: Is this a well known effect?

[Carl Stross]

All I know is that violins do sound differently with the S/rest on the bottom block or on the side. 

[Barry J. Griffiths]

Carl,

 

Shoulder rest, not chinrest.

[Carl Stross]

Carl,

 

Shoulder rest, not chinrest.

 

Sorry.... It's not my fault...

[gowan]

By chance I happened to notice an interesting effect of the shoulder rest today when playing my #4 Guarneri copy. I noticed that the sound was strangely nasal ... l didn't like it. First I thought that this could be due to the room acoustic, this was in an old summer cottage where the acoustics was unfamiliar, cold the room dampen higher frequencies causing the nasal sound?

I happened to notice that I had brought two shoulder rests with me, this was a shoulder rest I seldom use. When switching to the ordinary shoulder rest or playing without the shoulder rest the nasality disappeared.

After some experimentation I noticed that I normally use the shoulder rest slightly diagonally over the bottom. The size of the other shoulder rest was different causing me to mount it perpendicular to the 'spine' of the violin across the lower bouts. This seemed to cause the nasality. When making the mounting more diagonal the sound brightened and the normal sound of the violin returned.

Question: Is this a well known effect?

There have been many postings at various times on the Fingerboard about whether shoulder rests should be used at all.  A vocal group of (fanatic?) people feel that the shoulder rest has a deleterious effect on the sound of the instrument.  Indeed it does sound different to the player when a shoulder rest is not used but several people said that listeners other than the player could hear no difference between with and without shoulder rest.  Different shoulder rests may make a difference in sound.  For example the Play-on-air inflated rest has a large area of contact with the back of the instrument which could have a damping effect.  .The shoulder rest would have an effect on the sound simply from being in contact with the instrument.  Anything touching the instrument affects the sound.  If the rest is tensioned somewhat when put on, this could have a compression effect on the back of the instrument and might explain the effect you observe.

[Lars Silen]

There have been many postings at various times on the Fingerboard about whether shoulder rests should be used at all. A vocal group of (fanatic?) people feel that the shoulder rest has a deleterious effect on the sound of the instrument. Indeed it does sound different to the player when a shoulder rest is not used but several people said that listeners other than the player could hear no difference between with and without shoulder rest. Different shoulder rests may make a difference in sound. For example the Play-on-air inflated rest has a large area of contact with the back of the instrument which could have a damping effect. .The shoulder rest would have an effect on the sound simply from being in contact with the instrument. Anything touching the instrument affects the sound. If the rest is tensioned somewhat when put on, this could have a compression effect on the back of the instrument and might explain the effect you observe.

My son, a professional violinist, doesn't use an ordinary shoulder rest because he feels that it impacts the sound in a negative way. I haven't been able to objectively hear the difference in sound when he tried different alternatives.

I think you probably are correct in that listeners don't hear the subtle differences in sound. So is this an example of 'a near field' effect where the player experiences an effect that listeners further away aren't able to hear .

It seems clear that any shoulder rest should have some effect on the sound. Intuitively the negative effect should be greater when not using a shoulder rest because then a large area of the bottom plate is damped.

Of course one explanation could be how medium frequencies are conducted from the violin to the playerr through the chin rest or the shoulder rest. If the change in tone coulour is due to conduction it would explain why listeners don't hear the effect.

Locating the feet of the shoulder rest in different ways in relation to the lower end of the violin would simply mean the shoulder rest picks up sound from different active areas that is then conducted to the player. I'm not shure what the correct explanation is but it surely is interesting .

[Muswell]

It seems clear that any shoulder rest should have some effect on the sound. Intuitively the negative effect should be greater when not using a shoulder rest because then a large area of the bottom plate is damped.

That depends.  I don't use a shoulder-rest and the only point of contact is a very small area, maybe 2 sq cm, that rests on my collarbone. 

 

PS  I' m not anti shoulder-rest, I just found that my shoulder was more relaxed........and there is nothing to fall off .

[Marty Kasprzyk]

That depends.  I don't use a shoulder-rest and the only point of contact is a very small area, maybe 2 sq cm, that rests on my collarbone. 

 

PS  I' m not anti shoulder-rest, I just found that my shoulder was more relaxed........and there is nothing to fall off .

I don't like them falling off either.  Now I screw the shoulder rest right onto the back.  I made a special deep case so I don't have to take it on and off all the time.

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

I don't like them falling off either.  Now I screw the shoulder rest right onto the back.  I made a special deep case so I don't have to take it on and off all the time.

Marty, why not just carve the shoulder rest right into the back plate?  Like the old integral bassbar.  Yeah.  JUST like it.  

[Violadamore]

When you pitch the ubiquitous cheap plastic ones in a dumpster, it makes a dull thud

[Rue]

When you pitch the ubiquitous cheap plastic ones in a dumpster, it makes a dull thud

 

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

When you pitch the ubiquitous cheap plastic ones in a dumpster, it makes a dull thud

I take it that is without the violin attached.  Otherwise, the sound would vary depending on the violin model...? 

[Marty Kasprzyk]

Marty, why not just carve the shoulder rest right into the back plate?  Like the old integral bassbar.  Yeah.  JUST like it.  

The basic problem is that the instrument is too thin and you need something to fill up space between the shoulder and the chin.  Various combinations of shoulder rests and chin rests are used to fill this space depending upon the player's body physique and preferences.

 

Sometime in the near future I'll make a viola with the rib about 20 or 30mm deeper on the lower bout bass side and skip hanging all this junk on the instrument.

[La Folia]

I tune my shoulder rest to an A so I know if the violin is in tune.

When switching to the ordinary shoulder rest or playing without the shoulder rest the nasality disappeared.

After some experimentation I noticed that I normally use the shoulder rest slightly diagonally over the bottom. The size of the other shoulder rest was different causing me to mount it perpendicular to the 'spine' of the violin across the lower bouts. This seemed to cause the nasality. When making the mounting more diagonal the sound brightened and the normal sound of the violin returned.

Question: Is this a well known effect?

I have never noticed this, but it doesn't seem surprising.  You have to hold a violin somehow, and any way you hold it is going to damp something.  If you hold it on the collar bone, you suppress something.  A shoulder rest suppresses something else.  Another shoulder rest suppresses still something else.  Experiments have shown that the effects are relatively minor.  Does one damp more than another?  Don't know, don't care (fingers in ears).

 

My guess is that by attaching the shoulder rest straight across you are allowing a resonance that is suppressed by the other rest.  It could be the other way around.  We can guess what is suppressing what, but without experiments it's just a guess.  I'm not sure there's much point.  It is what it is.

 

If you are wondering why the answers were so glib, I think the reason is that people did not want to ignite the religious war that was fought on this forum a few years ago.  There are some who insist vehemently that one must never use a shoulder rest because of sound, and that a great soloist would never use one.  Fortunately that was decided long ago, when many of today's international soloists started using them.  I can personally attest that Gil Shaham sounds fabulous from the very last row with a shoulder rest.