Where to buy maple for pegbox repair

[MamaTorra]

I'm repairing a lovely old violin with some major pegbox issues. There were several previous repair attempts (not by me) and there is now very little wood left to work with. I want to re-cheek both sides with full thickness at the A peg and half thickness with a lap joint on either side. But, I have no idea where to buy maple appropriate for this kind of repair, as most of the repair wood I've seen is spruce. The scroll is not flamed, so finding a relative match shouldn't be difficulty. Where do you buy wood of this type? So far I've only found maple for backs and ribs, which is either overkill or too thin for what I need since I'm going to need some extra thickness in order to carve the angle for the lap joint at the narrower scroll. Thanks in advance for the guidance!

[Violadamore]

I personally use a mix of some derelict violin carcasses and various bits and pieces that I picked up buying other luthiers' "junk boxes" on eBay with wood I harvest in my own forest (to plane spiral bushings off of, for instance).  I find that old wood is best for grafting.

 

For what you are doing, plain maple from Home Depot, an old gunstock, old furniture, or whatever should do.  Photos?

[MamaTorra]

Sure, Violadamore! Here's my Flickr album for the project (you may have seen this before - I think you commented on my post about the 'Brandilioni' a while back). 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jenatjax/sets/72157642181347644/

 

I was thinking of trying the half-cheek/spiral bushing first and seeing if it would hold just so I could try the technique. That way if it doesn't work I can always do the full cheek. Thoughts? Do you think there is enough wood there to even attempt the half-cheek? I would much rather keep the original outer wood for aesthetic purposes… If it all goes disastrously wrong I'll give it a whole new neck and scroll. It needs a neck reset anyway, I'm told (although the neck and button appear solid - I suspect the button may have been poorly repaired at one point - how do I know whether the neck is solid or not? I don't want to pull it off if I don't have to). 

 

 Good to know I don't need anything really special for this (i.e. tone wood) as currently this is the only violin carcass I have lying around.  

 

Thanks much!

MamaTorra

[Jerry Lynn]

MamaTorra,

 

"Cheeking" is a rather invasive repair.  In carrying that out you would be removing a lot of original wood and varnish, and I'm not sure it would be successful given that the previous work is unstable. You're mostly in a pickle because of the previous internal patches.  The "last guy" lessened your options by doing something invasive.  I would think twice about adding to it.

 

 It's tough to really get a handle on the issues with out having the instrument in hand, but I think you can be cosmetically and structurally successful by removing the previous failing repairs (internal cheeks and bushings)carefully cleaning/regluing the cracks, and reinstalling better fitting internals and bushings.  A spiral on the a peg would make good sense at that point. This is just my two cents...  I'm sure others will have opinions.   

 

As far as repair wood:  I really like knowing where my wood comes from, how old it is, how it's been stored... etc.  Developing a relationship with a wood dealer can just as useful for a repair person as it is for some one who is predominantly doing new making.  A few times a year I just order wood to add to the "library."   I really like the communication I've had with John Preston at "Old World Tonewood," And, he's helped me out of a jam a few times.  Good guy.  I have no commercial relationship with him other than as a customer.

 

Jerry

[Violadamore]

 

OK, having looked at your photos, since you've already removed the old repair, make yourself a jig to hold the pegbox/scroll for clamping, then, IMHO

1. Close the crack through the A peg area as much as possible for whatever good it will do.
2. Carefully record the location of the center of the old A peg hole with reference to the existing edges
3. Chalk fit a solid wedge across the pegbox to fill the old repair area
4. Patch the old A peg holes flush with the surface and cosmetically fill any remaining visible cracks.
5. Redrill the A peg hole
6. Carve out the excess wedge wood to reopen the pegbox
7. Hole ream, spiral bush both holes, fit peg, and refinish

 

Mature, constructive criticism of my approach wold be appreciated

[Jerry Lynn]

It looks as if she has added more photos since I looked at her original post?  MamaTorra, forgive me if I overstepped.  From your original post looking for matching wood, it sounded as if you were planning on cheeking the outside.  After seeing the pics that Vda brought out, it looks as if we are on the same page.

TheMessAsItStands1.jpg

 

OK, having looked at your photos, since you've already removed the old repair, make yourself a jig to hold the pegbox/scroll for clamping, then, IMHO

1. Close the crack through the A peg area as much as possible for whatever good it will do.
2. Carefully record the location of the center of the old A peg hole with reference to the existing edges
3. Chalk fit a solid wedge across the pegbox to fill the old repair area
4. Patch the old A peg holes flush with the surface and cosmetically fill any remaining visible cracks.
5. Redrill the A peg hole
6. Carve out the excess wedge wood to reopen the pegbox
7. Hole ream, spiral bush both holes, fit peg, and refinish

 

Mature, constructive criticism of my approach wold be appreciated

 

I can be immature if you would like... I've spent a little time around Burgess to figure out how to do that 

 

I think your approach is sound.  It might be easier to do one side at at time. It might not either. It depends on how things line up. I'd probably true up the gluing surface on the inside (taking care of any bumps, and perhaps feathering the rails of the patch bed a bit.)   There is the issue of the double hole at the A peg. Dependent on how fragile the whole mess is, I might try to do something with the hole closest to the D first.  

[Roger Hargrave]

I'm repairing a lovely old violin with some major pegbox issues. There were several previous repair attempts (not by me) and there is now very little wood left to work with. I want to re-cheek both sides with full thickness at the A peg and half thickness with a lap joint on either side. But, I have no idea where to buy maple appropriate for this kind of repair, as most of the repair wood I've seen is spruce. The scroll is not flamed, so finding a relative match shouldn't be difficulty. Where do you buy wood of this type? So far I've only found maple for backs and ribs, which is either overkill or too thin for what I need since I'm going to need some extra thickness in order to carve the angle for the lap joint at the narrower scroll. Thanks in advance for the guidance!

Here again we have the problem of anonymity. If we don't know where you are we can't point you in the right direction. BUT, having said that, your question is not particularly easy to answer. Most wood dealers don't stock plain or unusual woods and the problem is that if you are repairing then you really do need a large stock. When I worked at Hills my old workshop manager (over ninety years) told me that when you are faced with fitting a new piece, the greatest time should be spent, not doing the repair, but finding the right piece of wood. From that moment I collected every piece I could find. Today I no longer repair, but my friend Johannes, who does excellent work, collects all the wood he can find and also takes all of the off cuts from my making. Visit any wood working shops in your area and just ask before the burn it or throw it on the skip.    

[MamaTorra]

Thanks, all! Love this forum...

 

I'm curious, Violadamore - why the solid wedge across (#3) rather than doing each side individually? It's a cool idea, hadn't heard it before. Does it have a benefit over doing the individual sides? 

 

Jerry Lynn - no worries. I have a few progressively invasive options here if things don't go well: First I'll try the interior patch with spiral bushings. If that doesn't hold I'll try the full cheek replacement. This is my first repair (YIKES, I know!) so it's nice to have a backup plan. Thanks for the recommendation of "Old Tone Wood" - I'll check him out. 

 

One of our wonderful colleagues on here contacted me by PM and offered some scrap maple, so I think I'll be set with wood at the moment. If that doesn't work out I'll try some of the local furniture makers and see what they have.

 

Thanks again, everyone!

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

TheMessAsItStands1.jpg

 

OK, having looked at your photos, since you've already removed the old repair, make yourself a jig to hold the pegbox/scroll for clamping, then, IMHO

1. Close the crack through the A peg area as much as possible for whatever good it will do.
2. Carefully record the location of the center of the old A peg hole with reference to the existing edges
3. Chalk fit a solid wedge across the pegbox to fill the old repair area
4. Patch the old A peg holes flush with the surface and cosmetically fill any remaining visible cracks.
5. Redrill the A peg hole
6. Carve out the excess wedge wood to reopen the pegbox
7. Hole ream, spiral bush both holes, fit peg, and refinish

 

Mature, constructive criticism of my approach wold be appreciated

Are you trying to elevate the dialogue here, Vdm?  With your expertise in repair/restoration, I would think you would recognize a hopeless proposition when you saw one.

[Violadamore]

Thanks, all! Love this forum...

 

I'm curious, Violadamore - why the solid wedge across (#3) rather than doing each side individually? It's a cool idea, hadn't heard it before. Does it have a benefit over doing the individual sides? 

 

It has several advantages.  You're dealing with a larger piece to handle.  You get to clamp it in vertically, which is easier.  When you redrill the holes, you only drill one hole, which is more likely to remain true and the drilling force is absorbed by the whole block, so you aren't running the risk of knocking one side loose and having to redo it.  Carving the center out is a bit tedious, but so is carving two separate thin cheek inserts.  Also, you can leave a thin layer joining the two sides in the bottom of the pegbox (especially if you carve the bottom a bit deeper to smooth it first) to help strengthen the whole area.  I also feel that the signs you leave when doing it this way just looks cooler afterwards

[MamaTorra]

Cool. It does sound like a nice technique. The only concern I have is with redrilling, as I don't have any special tools for that (yet). Do you have any tricks for making sure the hole goes in at the right angle and straight to where it's supposed to? Without the block you'd be able to see to verify… 

 

Thanks again!

[Violadamore]

Cool. It does sound like a nice technique. The only concern I have is with redrilling, as I don't have any special tools for that (yet). Do you have any tricks for making sure the hole goes in at the right angle and straight to where it's supposed to? Without the block you'd be able to see to verify… 

 

Thanks again!

Ummm, no special tricks.  I center drill the exact spot first with the neck set in a jig and advance the drill slowly and carefully at medium rpm using a 3/16 " drill, the smallest hole my reamer will fit, and ream from there.  You're going to want a drill press

 

Edit-- In case you're not used to woodworking, you'll want to drill down until the drill tip just cuts the opposite side, then flip the pegbox over and finish the hole going in the opposite direction to prevent "chip out".

[MamaTorra]

Gotcha! Thanks Vda!

[Julian Cossmann Cooke]

An alternative to the drill press -- unless, of course, you already own or have access to one -- is a light handheld cordless drill (light as in lithium battery).  I know this may raise some howls among our colleagues, but drilling a straight line is not that difficult, especially when you consider that you will be reaming and that will provide opportunities to tweak the line.  Start out with a smaller drill bit, something compatible in size with, say, your awl.  Once you have drilled through the proper position on the treble side of the pegbox -- bass if you're a southpaw --, insert your awl through the hole and mark the opposite inside wall.  That will give you something to aim for as you start the hole in the bass side wall.  Another wrinkle on Vda's suggestion is to use a tapered drill bit to drill through the opposite wall which should give you a starting point on the outside of the bass side wall with no tear-out.  As always, lots of ways to peel the apple.  i gave up cat-skinning when I became a vegetarian.