Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

Stradivari's Secret


Roger Hargrave

Recommended Posts

I don't think so. And I still call a retard a spade. :)

Wow...what an incredibly 16th century view your expressing ...  You obviously have not kept up on the latest research in the field. turns out that there are in fact many highly functional autistic spectrum people ...up to one in four.... nothing that you would see on the surface, ....unless you know what signs to look for. People like Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison display many of the earmarks of a Highly functional Autism spectrum....Many in math music and the Arts..often viewed as savants..ever notice how many highly skilled individuals.... lack a sort of social grace? ...have a hard time making eye contact ... can only talk about points of interest?..Feel more comfortable with books, tools, and materials than people? Obsess over a minutia of detail that other normal people disregard? feel a compulsive need to learn everything possible about a interest they have? These are all signs of Autism.  I was just offering a reasonable solution ...The guy wakes up and eats breathes sleeps dies making violins .... that appears to be sum total of Strads life ...that and making babies. And ,carl How's your violin coming along? ...or are you waiting for more secrets? I don't care if you disagree with me ...I'm not in agreement with myself half the time, and I am not saying he was autistic merely offering the suggestion that he could have been. , BUT if you or anyone, want to just shoot down the concept that I proposed ..you better have a solid footing,cause I have done the research, and it is at least a possibility...IN fact a very real possibility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 740
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

There are many "secrets" in the Gary Bassey book...not to be confused with that unfunny drunk clown Gary Busey.

Good luck finding a copy, or references to it anywhere...or a copy under two grand.

*slinks away with bootleg under my arm*

Is the Baese book really up to $2,000?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's one for you. The secret of Strad is......ROGERI.

 

From the 1660's to the 1680's, Strad is competing with Amati, Guarneri and Ruggeri, and the basic product line has a graceful but narrower arch. Then an ex Amati workman who moved to Brescia realized there's a market for Magginis and starts making copies or even "fake" Magginis. One of these makes its way to Strad, and a lightbulb goes off...Strad comes up with the long model with a full edge to edge arch, and the super ultra nec plus ultra concert violin is born. Strad (or his sons) start wondering if they can't have that deeper sound from the fuller arch and greater volume and surface in a violin that isn't so long, and the Golden Strad is born. The full arch inspires H. Amati, Joseph filius, and Vincenzo Ruggeri, and the next generation gives us Del Gesus and Bergonzis...and it all started with G.B.Rogeri making Maggini copies, mixing Cremonese technique with Brescian arching...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Allow me to partially shoot down my own hypothesis of post #10.

Thanks to folks contributing data, I now have this chart, with my endpoints in red, others in blue, and Cremonese in black.

As a reminder, this is M5 taptone vs. plate weight, without the bass bar.

post-25192-0-49017900-1394000794_thumb.jpg

 

Since M5/taptone is a reasonable indicator of the stiffness to weight ratio of the wood, I think it's pretty obvious that modern wood is not deficient in that particular property.

 

Let me digress for a moment... all these other secrets of ponding, fungus, borax, bug juice, rabbit poop, etc. can not do anything whatsoever to the tone in and of themselves... IT HAS TO CHANGE THE WOOD PROPERTIES TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.  And that is something we can hopefully get some bounds on.  I think this information clearly shows that there is no unusual stiffness/weight ratio, and IF there is a difference in the wood, it must be elsewhere.

 

Elsewhere being damping, damping as a function of frequency, or perhaps some localized effects due to vibration that do not show up in a more global taptone measurement (this last one I don't put much stock in, but include it here for theoretical completeness).  Or something in the back or ribs, which has been ignored as we look mostly at the spruce.

 

All of this is predecated on the assumption that some old Cremonese fiddles do indeed have some sound properties unmatched by modern instruments... which has not been objectively proven as yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All of this is predecated on the assumption that some old Cremonese fiddles do indeed have some sound properties unmatched by modern instruments... which has not been objectively proven as yet.

 

I know very little specifically about violins, but I find it really difficult to believe that old violins sound better than the really great new ones - - better for what???? Better is the player's hands, ears and concept. Maybe Strad wanted his violins to sound more like the loud Austrians than the delicate Italians...

 

But as far as looks, than I believe there is an argument, italians are known for their education in style, their stuff breaks down, but looks great, today much worst than before, people do not dress as well in Italy as when I was a kid, they are not as educated. In Strad's time, IMHO the level of education in style and tastefulness was much superior. (and his stuff was simple looking, but tasteful)

 

No one makes stuff like this anymore. (cochineal painted walls)

 

027-tribuna-degli-uffizi-dopo-il-restaur

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK I am playing catch up here. So this is what I am answering so far without having yet read all the answers. However I am beginning to get the feeling (as Carl suggests) that everyone is hanging back a little. A few nice points have been raised.

Berl mentions a mineral ground. This was apparently what we could see when Barlow took those famous microscopic photos back in the early 1980’s (?). However, talking to Brigitte, she dismisses this; certainly in the thickness that Barlow showed. This does not mean that it was not used. When I use it, (described on the bass making blog) it has very little (almost no) thickness. My experience as I said on the blog is that the sound of my instruments was vastly improved; especially their carrying power. It does not seem to matter much which mineral is used. This may not be ‘the secret’, but it works for me.

Addie try tampons for your nose bleed. When I played rugby our trainer used them all the time.

Matthew, a nice answer.

Fiddlesurgen, Ooohw, sound a bit ethereal.

Stephen, even as an Englishman I know who Babe Ruth was. This is a very legitimate theory and I suggest that in future we should all refer to it as the ‘Babe Ruth theory’.

Not Telling is not telling us enough. Would he like to expand this theory? Has he/she tried it? I tried it some time back and it certainly lightened the wood. I also know that on the quiet one or two American makers have tried this. Anyone willing to say? My experience was inconclusive. On the whole I found it a bit extreme and I did not like the feel of the wood while it was being worked. But it was a long time ago and perhaps I did not do it right. Your mrntion of the ‘Craftmans Handbook’ is worth repeating. It’s a great read and it is where I got the idea to try boiling. It must be available on line today?

Viloadamore, as Roddy Doyle says, ‘You’re a gasman!’ ‘You may even be a genius!’ I said that!

Don, always interesting, but I am not sure that these statistics tell us anything more than the fact that Strads instruments present a wide variety of results. Moreover we are not, cannot, (in spite of the topic title) just be talking about Strad here. And I am not sure about your thermal process. Vuillaume and the Hills tried this with little success, but perhaps your process is less extreme. Someone mentioned seasoning under a hot roof, but I would guess that freshly cut timber would suffer from such treatment. Don’t forget that it was never very old when it was being used.

Just old age has also being mentioned. Well I love to use old wood, but there are thousands of old instruments out there. Are they all good?

Christopher! Let’s hear all about it.

Will L! if there was some form of ‘tuning’ it can only have been done from the outside, when the fluting was being cut. Unfortunately, the surviving relics suggest that they worked to more or less fixed thicknesses. (Blocks of wood that represented the finished thicknessing in the edges.

Mdaddona, there is undoubtedly some truth in this.

David, these are wise words.

Torbjörn what can I say? Except that I thought the movie was crap! You’ve come up with many better theories. I see you as one of the real thinkers, so come on let’s hear it.

Membasta! Correct but are not many modern makers capable of doing most of that stuff? By the way, that’s a serious question.

Christian bayon! Sounds fair enough. As someone else said, if it works for you! But I note that you use an Andrea Amati (the macdaddy of them all), as your call sign so those guys must mean something to you?

Mdaddona, in Duane Rosengards book he describes the trials and tribulations of Guadagnini, as his city was surrounded by the French army. (Those awful French!) He was bombarded and lost members of his family and remarried and got taken to court and was starved almost to death and still produced his quota of instruments.

James yes, but there are ways and ways of water seasoning wood. It was a fairly common to anchor wood under water in fast flowing streams. Not to mention transporting wood this way. Then there are the many theories of bacteria being used (either by accident or design). Who knows? I was expecting some theories about these things.

Peter this is all possible, but if I have understood you correctly, not if you had the body closed before you finished the thicknessing (as Strad did).

Oh! I just read David’s comments. Lots of juicy stuff but it sounds as if these are all chapter headings for a book. You clearly have something to say and it sounds to me that you have thought this all through very methodically. Go on David, write it.

As I posted Carlo's picture just came up. What to say?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dburns, very nice! Jack mentions the wood. This is one of the places where I keep ending up. Everything else is either extremely variable (taking either Cremona or northern Italy as a whole) or we can get very close, (copyist are often incredibly accurate).

I have tried the bending process (thanks to David Fulton) and I have seen a couple of early Italian violins that show signs of having been bent. As Dietrich Kessler showed, bending was used to good effect by Gamba makers in England. B ut I am particularly interested in wood harvesting and wood seasoning, about which we know very little.

We do know that wood for musical instruments (can we call it tone wood) was exported all over Europe from the alpine regions of southern Europe. These tone wood dealer/harvesters were clearly highly skilled. Is it possible that some form of handling, (dendrochronologists suggests that it cannot have been too time consuming), occurred before sale? If so it would have to apply to cheaper as well as expensive timbers.

I talked with Koen about this quite a lot. As I said in my opener, I believe that trees may have been ring barked for a season before felling. I tried to interest a couple of wood dealers, but even for money they were not interested. They made several excuses including the fact that these trees would be stolen from where they stood. This method of starving trees was done for several reasons. The first being that it reduced the chance of insect attack, (yes I know that there were worms in classical instruments, but most of these must have been in the wood while it was alive). Apparently this process removed most of the sugars form the wood. The leaves simply drew them out.

I am also interested in the action of bacteria. This may be yet another red herring but I have tried it with some success. However it can very easily go wrong and I have destroyed one or two nice pieces as a result. I no longer use this method but I am not ruling it out.

That’s enough for now. I am lying in bed writing this and it is already 10-45 and I need to take the dog out again and get on with some work. ‘till later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peter this is all possible, but if I have understood you correctly, not if you had the body closed before you finished the thicknessing (as Strad did).

 

 

The final tuning is done from the outside. It is very easy to hear B1- and B1+ (top and back) on an unstrung violin in the white and adjust them, if the initial graduation is proper (not too thin or thick). I'm not suggesting that this is proof of what he did, but it's possible to do this and copy Strad signature modes:

 

http://www.thestradsound.com/home/modal-goal---strad-average

https://sites.google.com/site/peterkgviolins/home/modal-goal---strad-average

 

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow...what an incredibly 16th century view your expressing ...  You obviously have not kept up on the latest research in the field. turns out that there are in fact many highly functional autistic spectrum people ...up to one in four.... nothing that you would see on the surface, ....unless you know what signs to look for. People like Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison display many of the earmarks of a Highly functional Autism spectrum....Many in math music and the Arts..often viewed as savants..ever notice how many highly skilled individuals.... lack a sort of social grace? ...have a hard time making eye contact ... can only talk about points of interest?..Feel more comfortable with books, tools, and materials than people? Obsess over a minutia of detail that other normal people disregard? feel a compulsive need to learn everything possible about a interest they have? These are all signs of Autism.  I was just offering a reasonable solution ...The guy wakes up and eats breathes sleeps dies making violins .... that appears to be sum total of Strads life ...that and making babies. And ,carl How's your violin coming along? ...or are you waiting for more secrets? I don't care if you disagree with me ...I'm not in agreement with myself half the time, and I am not saying he was autistic merely offering the suggestion that he could have been. , BUT if you or anyone, want to just shoot down the concept that I proposed ..you better have a solid footing,cause I have done the research, and it is at least a possibility...IN fact a very real possibility.

 

I took care of an autistic person for years, on and off. Not the easiest thing to do and something which switched me off the "latest research" which I think it is often just PC bs. The fact somebody is a rude a/hole interested only in his hobby, doesn't make him a candidate for "highly functional autism". 

 

The violin is going fine. I am busy practicing cutting bridges, fitting soundposts, planing FBs, those sort of things. Also, bent some ribs and am trying to fit a neck. Bit of a final dress rehearsal. Bought most of the tools I may need and managed to learn to glue two pieces of wood together. I'll be making a mold towards the end of the month.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starting your first?

 

Very interesting. We may be straying a bit from the subject matter of this post. Perhaps, and perhaps not. As, once you get started in this business, these questionss will most likely take on a whole new perspective for you.

 

I must say Carl, this is something of great interest to me - the prospect of someone starting, that is. Or, of someone making his/her # 1...

I remember that day,  deciding to start my first, with great clarity, even though it was many many years ago.

 

Need anything - materials wise?

if so, PM me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

All of this is predicated on the assumption that some old Cremonese fiddles do indeed have some sound properties unmatched by modern instruments... which has not been objectively proven as yet.

Great point. Nevertheless, I encourage research like yours and others to understand violins better. All great stuff. 

 

Let me throw this thought out - something that I read into Roger's first posting: Are Stradivari's techniques too simple and obvious for us to accept? That is, do we want to believe that Stradivari must have done something much more complex than the obvious? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I took care of an autistic person for years, on and off. Not the easiest thing to do and something which switched me off the "latest research" which I think it is often just PC bs. The fact somebody is a rude a/hole interested only in his hobby, doesn't make him a candidate for "highly functional autism". 

 

The violin is going fine. I am busy practicing cutting bridges, fitting soundposts, planing FBs, those sort of things. Also, bent some ribs and am trying to fit a neck. Bit of a final dress rehearsal. Bought most of the tools I may need and managed to learn to glue two pieces of wood together. I'll be making a mold towards the end of the month.

There is a problem with grouping people with disability,can a blind person make a fiddle? I to have cared for an autistic person ,a pants pooper, who thought it was funny..rude to, so I understand the basic reaction.... On the other hand I also know an extremely bright FUNCTIONAL autistic who by age 8-9 knew all the planes used by the US military their OAl ,wingspan, top speed in flight ,weight fully loaded, speed at take off ,years built, numbers built materials used , ect....add infanatum even fuel capacity.....IF I were an aerospace design firm......like lockhead or airbuss I'd want him on my docket if only to keep him away from the compition....like the mind a violins secrets are not so easy to sus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Christian bayon! Sounds fair enough. As someone else said, if it works for you! But I note that you use an Andrea Amati (the macdaddy of them all), as your call sign so those guys must mean something to you?

 

Of course!, and I use all my energy to try to analyse and understand them!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The final tuning is done from the outside. It is very easy to hear B1- and B1+ (top and back) on an unstrung violin in the white and adjust them, if the initial graduation is proper (not too thin or thick). I'm not suggesting that this is proof of what he did, but it's possible to do this and copy Strad signature modes:

 

http://www.thestradsound.com/home/modal-goal---strad-average

https://sites.google.com/site/peterkgviolins/home/modal-goal---strad-average

 

Peter

To provide a little more detail:

 

It is perfectly feasible, with any wood density, to reproducibly tune a free back plate and a free top plate to the desired frequency (± 3 Hz), with the desired weight (± 2 g), in accordance with the moisture content in the wood.  

In certain cases, the B1- and B1+ mode frequencies rise once the violin has been assembled in the white (with or without strings). Usually the seasoning of the wood was too brief (1 to 3 years), the wood has retracted after drying, or the moisture content in the wood was not in accordance with the frequency of the free materials. These mode frequencies (B1-, B1+) rarely rise beyond 15 Hz. After removing the back and top plates, the maker will observe a rise in the frequency of the free materials by the same number of hertz.

Generally, it is the back plate that poses the most problems: maple is very unstable whent it is insufficiently dry.

 

It is very easy to retune the B1- and B1+ mode frequencies by sanding the extrados (outer surface) of the back or top plate in the white, removing very little material (1 to 2 g maximum) thus thinning the wood only slightly.

This amounts to using the method used by the Cremonese violinmakers, who first tuned the free materials, then inlaid the purfling, and finished the purfling channel on the sounding box. This process also lowers the frequency of the free materials, mounted on the ribs, and the B1- and B1+ mode frequencies, which enabled them to do the final tuning after the materials had been left to stabilize for a certain time (exposed to the sun).

 

After the instrument has been strung, the back plate can become deformed towards the exterior by 1 mm. This raises the B1+ mode frequency by as many as 15 Hz. This frequency can be reduced to an appropriate value by sanding on the extrados of the back plate in the white. When a rise in frequency occurs after varnishing, the violin must be opened and wood removed from the intrados of the back plate.

Varnish that is too hard and too thick also raises the B1- and B1+ mode frequencies by 15 to 20 Hz. The maker must create his/her own varnish and learn how it modifies the body frequencies. A golden rule in varnishing: the less varnish, the better off the violin.

Therefore, it is not enough to construct a good violin: the instrument must remain good as time passes.

 

www.kreitpatrick.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The final tuning is done from the outside. It is very easy to hear B1- and B1+ (top and back) on an unstrung violin in the white and adjust them, if the initial graduation is proper (not too thin or thick). I'm not suggesting that this is proof of what he did, but it's possible to do this and copy Strad signature modes:

 

http://www.thestradsound.com/home/modal-goal---strad-average

https://sites.google.com/site/peterkgviolins/home/modal-goal---strad-average

 

Peter

 

Peter,

 

This idea pops up from time to time but I feel it doesn't get the attention it deserves.

What you are suggesting sounds like the 'voicing' of organ pipes i.e. a final adjustment that produces tonal improvements out of all proportion to the amount of material removed. 

 

Are you suggesting the technique would be something like tapping the corpus while running a scraper round the purling channel and listening to changes in tone or resonance?

 

Glenn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am somewhat amazed by the persistence of the B1 mode frequency myth, in spite of what I see as overwhelming contrary logic and evidence.  It's like looking for your lost wallet under a streetlamp when you can easily determine that it was stolen out of your gym locker.  But I guess the odds of finding it are about equal no matter where you look.

 

Since Roger initially suggested shooting at things, and recently complained...

 

Roger Hargrave, on 05 Mar 2014 - 01:08 AM, said:I am beginning to get the feeling (as Carl suggests) that everyone is hanging back a little.

 

 

I'll just repeat stuff I've said:

1.  Any Cremonese "tuning" would be destroyed by putting in new bass bars, regraduating, and the effects of time

2.  It takes little effort to discover that the B modes of good instruments, Cremonese or otherwise, are all over the place

3.  It takes little effort to discover that crappy instruments can also have B modes exactly the same frequencies as good ones

 

Even in my limited production, I find that the voices are all different, and there is no apparent relation to B mode frequencies, othe than the slightly softer "feel" for ones with very low frequencies, and vice versa.

 

I don't object to the general idea of "tuning", in that there are things that might be done to tweak a voice one way or another, or modify the stiffness, once you find out what you have.  But just getting the B mode frequencies to a preset value doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

 

 Roger Hargrave, on 05 Mar 2014 - 01:08 AM, said:

"Don, ...I am not sure about your thermal process. Vuillaume and the Hills tried this with little success, but perhaps your process is less extreme."

 

Roger, there are all sorts of "thermal" modifications that can be tried; I have tried some with zilch success, and some with quantifiable, measurable change in the wood properties.  I doubt that Villuame or the Hills messed around with pressure chambers or vacuum pumps, which is required for the type of processing I have found to have the most effect.

 

Still, the effects are not earthshaking, in terms of changing the stiffness/weight.  Generally it is in the range of 6% weight reduction and 6% stiffness increase, which is nice, but in terms of a plate would be something like going from a 65g, 310Hz M5 plate to one at 60g and 329Hz.  It seems a good thing, but not obviously going to give an instrument that will beat all others, especially when you consider the wide range that occurs normally in unprocessed wood.

 

Of more interest to me at the moment is damping, where much larger percentage changes (up to 40% reduction) can result from processing.  In my small stash of unprocessed wood, I believe I see a trend that older wood has lower damping, i.e. better "ring".  That goes along with the traditional idea of knocking on a billet of wood to judge by the ring if it's good or not.

 

I would be perfectly happy to conclude that processing makes no difference to the finished instrument.  At least then I wouldn't have to do all that extra work.  But for now, my mind and ear are hinting that it does make a difference.

 

(I got quotes to show up - sortof - but can't get them straightened out and edited)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To provide a little more detail:

 

It is perfectly feasible, with any wood density, to reproducibly tune a free back plate and a free top plate to the desired frequency (± 3 Hz), with the desired weight (± 2 g), in accordance with the moisture content in the wood.  

In certain cases, the B1- and B1+ mode frequencies rise once the violin has been assembled in the white (with or without strings). Usually the seasoning of the wood was too brief (1 to 3 years), the wood has retracted after drying, or the moisture content in the wood was not in accordance with the frequency of the free materials. These mode frequencies (B1-, B1+) rarely rise beyond 15 Hz. After removing the back and top plates, the maker will observe a rise in the frequency of the free materials by the same number of hertz.

Generally, it is the back plate that poses the most problems: maple is very unstable whent it is insufficiently dry.

 

It is very easy to retune the B1- and B1+ mode frequencies by sanding the extrados (outer surface) of the back or top plate in the white, removing very little material (1 to 2 g maximum) thus thinning the wood only slightly.

This amounts to using the method used by the Cremonese violinmakers, who first tuned the free materials, then inlaid the purfling, and finished the purfling channel on the sounding box. This process also lowers the frequency of the free materials, mounted on the ribs, and the B1- and B1+ mode frequencies, which enabled them to do the final tuning after the materials had been left to stabilize for a certain time (exposed to the sun).

 

After the instrument has been strung, the back plate can become deformed towards the exterior by 1 mm. This raises the B1+ mode frequency by as many as 15 Hz. This frequency can be reduced to an appropriate value by sanding on the extrados of the back plate in the white. When a rise in frequency occurs after varnishing, the violin must be opened and wood removed from the intrados of the back plate.

Varnish that is too hard and too thick also raises the B1- and B1+ mode frequencies by 15 to 20 Hz. The maker must create his/her own varnish and learn how it modifies the body frequencies. A golden rule in varnishing: the less varnish, the better off the violin.

Therefore, it is not enough to construct a good violin: the instrument must remain good as time passes.

 

www.kreitpatrick.com

Yes that all might be correct,  but there is little correlation between the B1- and B1+ frequencies and violin quality so why bother tuning them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starting your first?

 

Very interesting. We may be straying a bit from the subject matter of this post. Perhaps, and perhaps not. As, once you get started in this business, these questionss will most likely take on a whole new perspective for you.

 

I must say Carl, this is something of great interest to me - the prospect of someone starting, that is. Or, of someone making his/her # 1...

I remember that day,  deciding to start my first, with great clarity, even though it was many many years ago.

 

Need anything - materials wise?

if so, PM me.

 

Yes, I thought you knew. It seems you missed a huge ball of fun here on MN when I challenged David Burgess to a violin making competition "to the death". :)

 

I let David off the hook, because he's a sport :) but am still slowly moving on. Should be ready by end of July and it's not suppose to look nice, it must only

sound good. REAL good. STRAD good. Watch the "Modern makers " Forum and feel free to comment to your heart's desire.

 

http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/329304-carl-stross-scrap-wood-violin-project/

 

Of course, while David is not competing, that doesn't mean we can't compare...  :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, but

 

That’s what happens when a blind man leads the blind!

 

 hmmm - does it matter what department you're blind in?

Speaking realistically, aren't we all equally "blind" with regard to our various guesses about what 'works' and what 'does not work', in regard to making violins "correctly" today?

- the decisions about what does, and what does not work, are fairly well simply individual, and are, in virtually all cases, not describing actually superior or inferior construction methods.

 - so I believe we can discuss how "blind" the blind are, but we are pretty well all in the same blind boat here. (with regard to "lost" Cremonese methods, at least)  And we should realize that mainly, the biggest difference that exists today, is correctly described fairly simply by experience, talent, and native abilities.

And the more we talk about these different things, the more we just essentially repeat what everything we've said before here, again and again ad infinitum.

Not that this is wrong, mind you - but I think that the different posters should realize what we are really doing, when we discuss these various intricate aspects of making.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I thought you knew. It seems you missed a huge ball of fun here on MN when I challenged David Burgess to a violin making competition "to the death". :)

 

Sorry, I have lots of fun posting here after my recent stroke, where I can only remember just so much of what I say or have said, and what everyone else said and/or who said it. But, just give me another year, and I promise to be as obnoxiously verbose as I ever was in the past!

 

Yes, I'm striving to get back into the *swing* of things. Hopefully I will, eventually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...