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Stradivari's Secret


Roger Hargrave

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Do you know what was done by clever violin makers like J-B. Vuillaume, the Hills and a few skilled contemporary ones that I know? They regraduated certain old instruments, not because of excess thickness (as believed by some ignorant makers who consequently ruined violins unconsciously), but because they knew –and a few still know, today– how to retune a varnished violin’s back and top plates on the inside. This allows the craftsman to obtain a fine old or new violin that sounds great and sells for a higher price. Beware: this is not always feasible when the frequencies are too high or when the delta between frequencies is too great; thus, it is not within the comptence of just any luthier.

 

www.kreitpatrick.com

 

And have you got any evidence for this ? And some sound samples ? Do you have a sound clip with an example of this "to obtain a fine old or new violin that sounds great and sells for a higher price" ? 

 

For the life of me I don't understand how tuning the plates would make for a better violin. I mean, what does it DO to the violin ?

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I explicate this elsewhere; you find it!

 

www.kreitpatrick.com

 

No, you did not. I pulled ALL you posts off MN and nowhere you explained anything. To me all you seem to do is to advertise your book on MN by making

unsubstantiated claims. We are used to that but yours are SO repetitious, they are becoming a bother.

 

Now, have you got any evidence that your claims result in "Strad-like violins " and some sound samples of those "Strad like violins " ?

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Do you know what was done by clever violin makers like J-B. Vuillaume, the Hills and a few skilled contemporary ones that I know? They regraduated certain old instruments, not because of excess thickness (as believed by some ignorant makers who consequently ruined violins unconsciously), but because they knew –and a few still know, today– how to retune a varnished violin’s back and top plates on the inside.

How long did you work in the Vuillaume and Hill shops?

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So, what I'm getting is that Strad's secret was that he hitchhiked while wearing a bunny suit, and did so fearlessly, but his and del Gesù's violins weren't special until the Hills and Viullaume got their hands on them. And Roger is old, but not as old as the Hills. :P

I'm going back to studying the del Gesù code.

Addie, descendant of the prince, whose ancestors moved to Addiewell, Scotland, to be closer to Melrose, and the del Gesù secret. :D

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So, what I'm getting is that Strad's secret was that he hitchhiked while wearing a bunny suit, and did so fearlessly, but his and del Gesù's violins weren't special until the Hills and Viullaume got their hands on them. And Roger is old, but not as old as the Hills. :P

I'm going back to studying the del Gesù code.

Addie, descendant of the prince, whose ancestors moved to Addiewell, Scotland, to be closer to Melrose, and the del Gesù secret. :D

 

Why bother ? You can know it all by buying Patrick Kreit's book for ONLY Euro 372.00.  :) :) :)

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This thread could be re/titled....A Violin makers guide to the galaxy..!.

   I haven't hitched for quite a while...not since the kids were born, never turned a ride down(under the not judging a book...rule) and still pick up hikers still ...What still surprises me to this day is how the best rides were always ...without exception ....the most "fringe" type of people ...the real creeps were the straight-laced types ...funny eh?

  On Carlo's post ...nice...courage , is the one virtue that gives all the other virtues breath,depth and substance...

Three years ago, I was taking my son,15 yrs old, to the airport for his first solo flight....and he was scared ...but not wanting to admit it...rather than trying to convince him that his chances of death were very small,blah blah blah,.... , I asked him IF he were to die ,would it be better to die following a dream for life?or to die dreaming of a life not lived? I am very proud of his choice to board the plane...and so is he.

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Damned! I just notice this morning I´m not a good luthier! :(

I´m going back to my bed!

Ha! Coming from you.

It's ok. You can keep selling your work to world-class chamber musicians and soloists. If you put a picture of yourself thoughtfully tapping and listening to your violin in an ad in The Strad you could finally become real. Maybe someday I too will become a real luthier and buy in to whatever Peter is selling. I like how Peter is on his...6th (?), and already discovered all of the secrets...or at least, the important ones.

I missed the part where he linked to soundclips of his theories in action. Can someone link back to that please?

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Patrick KREIT, on 11 Mar 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

What keeps us from realizing our dreams is fear.

 

 

... or harsh reality.  It is much easier to realize dreams if one fearlessly ignores the real world. :)

 

 

Roger, just to clarify...

 

I do not believe that "tuning" (other than perhaps taptones, weights or  other quick in-process plate checks) was part of the traditional Cremonese method, nor would it have mattered even if it was, due to all the changes mentioned.    I don't tune, other than getting mass and taptones into an approximate zone (if the wood allows it), and see what I get.  Then adjust from there... mostly just remove more wood if it's too stiff.

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Why bother ? You can know it all by buying Patrick Kreit's book for ONLY Euro 372.00.  :) :) :)

372 Euros? That's more than the total inventory of Addie's Fine and Rare Violins is worth!!!!!! Outrageous! Wait till my varnish book comes out. I'm going to price it at 373 Euros! So there!

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372 Euros? That's more than the total inventory of Addie's Fine and Rare Violins is worth!!!!!! Outrageous! Wait till my varnish book comes out. I'm going to price it at 373 Euros! So there!

 

Yes, but imagine what they'll be worth once you buy the TRUE book for only 372 Euros . And don't allow yourself bothered by the complete lack of evidence - be adventurous, realize your dreams and don't allow fear to keep you from

diving into your Master Card.

 

This way you can also help Peter Kreit to realize his dream : getting 372 Euros from as many people as possible. Or as they say, two barrels with the same rabbit.

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Vous n’êtes pas le seul qui devrait rester couché ! (you are not the only one who will be better to stay in bed)

Maybe you are right, but,what I would like to understand is why, after a full career in France, none of your instrument is played by relevant musicians. If we are so ignorant and you know exactly what the classical maker have done, why the musicians don´t see that, are they deaf?

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Does ones memory improve with age?

Sometimes in the past I read an article (in the strad??) about the price of violin strings in the age of Purcell. They were prohibitively expensive!! I also read another article (in the Strad??) about Paganini playin on the Canon violin. By the end of the sessions often only one string remained. So is it a wonder why some instruments were regraduated or re-tuned?

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Yes, but...

Don’t make light of my varnish book!!!!   :angry:

 

Through extensive online genealogy research computer-losy-smiley.gif?1292867574 and consultation with psychics  singoalla-smiley.gif?1292867672  I have PROVED that Homer Formby is the direct descendant of Antonio Stradivari, and that he inherited the varnish secret.  brain-smiley.gif?1292867561

 

Yes, Formby’s Tung Oil Finish IS the Cremonese varnish.  You heard it here first.  Note that Formby’s formula is not tung oil, but a varnish containing tung oil, AKA nut oil.  Emphasis on the nut.  nuts-smiley.gif?1292867647

 

@373€, this proof will be worth at least half the price.  You have my word on that.  Maybe.

 

I know I can count on Roger (bunny-smiley.gif?1292867562) to buy a copy.  Hello?  Hello?

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Maybe you are right, but,what I would like to understand is why, after a full career in France, none of your instrument is played by relevant musicians. If we are so ignorant and you know exactly what the classical maker have done, why the musicians don´t see that, are they deaf?

 

No. Blind. They can't read his book. :) :) :)

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I did a good deal of hitchhiking in the late 60's and early 70's in the American west and northwest.  It was easy and fun.  Even so, the risk is there and considerable.  A very nice fellow picked me up who turned out to be drunk and flipped the car end over end off a low bridge, so I'm  lucky to be alive.  A girlfriend of mine hitched with another girl, and was beat up and raped.  It was never reported.  And those were in the "good" days.  I tried hitching again in the 80's, and things were completely different.  People would not pick you up.  Got stranded between Phoenix  and Flagstaff and only got to my destination by being rescued by a friend.  I've never been to Europe.  The people must be nice there.  It sounds like a friendly place.  If you have time to read, when not doing your researches, I would suggest getting a copy of "Travels with Lizbeth" by Lars Eighner.  Here's a 6'6", 350 pound gay guy, with a dog, that hitches twice between Austin Texas and Los Angeles in the late 1980's.  From my experience his account is very authentic, very funny, and a good read.  Enjoy your articles very much, by the way.

 

I can also recomend 'Even Cowgirls Get The Blues' and 'Last Hotel New Hampshire'. This last one just for the story of travelling across the States with a motorbike and sidecar with a dancing bear sitting in it.

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I did a good deal of hitchhiking in the late 60's and early 70's in the American west and northwest.  It was easy and fun.  Even so, the risk is there and considerable.  A very nice fellow picked me up who turned out to be drunk and flipped the car end over end off a low bridge, so I'm  lucky to be alive.  A girlfriend of mine hitched with another girl, and was beat up and raped.  It was never reported.  And those were in the "good" days.  I tried hitching again in the 80's, and things were completely different.  People would not pick you up.  Got stranded between Phoenix  and Flagstaff and only got to my destination by being rescued by a friend.  I've never been to Europe.  The people must be nice there.  It sounds like a friendly place.  If you have time to read, when not doing your researches, I would suggest getting a copy of "Travels with Lizbeth" by Lars Eighner.  Here's a 6'6", 350 pound gay guy, with a dog, that hitches twice between Austin Texas and Los Angeles in the late 1980's.  From my experience his account is very authentic, very funny, and a good read.  Enjoy your articles very much, by the way.

Probably not an uncommon story especially the unreported rape. Being raped is probably not as bad as being murdered but definitely worth being afraid of.

I guess if you were a. 20 something year old white male you were probably fairly safe in the good old days.

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