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GoldenPlate

M. Albani?

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Wonder why they took off the regular tailpiece and put on the Wittner? Hard to tune? Wonder about the downgraded case too...for the price they are asking one would think dressing it up with the addition of a somewhat nicer case would be a nice touch...kinda like selling the Porche with new tires vs. the old ones...

Don't know enough to wonder about the more important bits...

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The mystery to me is that, if you had a violin like this, why on earth would you try to sell it on eBay?  Any buyer would have to assume there is something wrong with it, wouldn't they?  I am aware of fine instruments having been sold on eBay that really were exactly what the person said they were, in great condition, etc etc., but they couldn't get a very good price (well, unless you were the buyer...).  We often focus on the gullibility of eBay buyers trying to get something for (nearly) nothing, but it goes the other way as well.  An honest seller with a nice violin has a hard time in that venue getting anyone to believe them.  As for this particular offering, I have no idea what it is, of course, but if it's real, I can't believe they wouldn't do better just about anywhere else. 

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His buy it now price is 25000 pounds. Insurance appraisal (always high) is 50000 so minus an auction house commission and waiting for payment may not net him that much more than what he can get on ebay with quicker payment?

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That's a nice looking violin. I may be mistaken, but from my understanding, a D.R.Hill certificate doesn't carry the same kind of weight as a certificate from say, Beare or Reuning to name a few. If I am wrong, please correct me. The seller does mention that another expert said he doesn't consider the violinan Albani, and considering the huge variety of violins I've seen that are purported to be Albani's, I have to admit I have no idea whatsoever what a real one looks like. Apparently, real Albanis are so close to Goffrillers, that it seems many have been "naturalized" Venetian, so the ones we see as "Albanis" are actually really good makers from the "German-speaking" school, Of course, that means we get deprived of seeing authentic Mayrs and Helmers as they get tarted up in turn and so it goes... 

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(@ Oringo) For the history, you might like to try the Österrechische Akadamie der Wissenschaft Musiklexicon, written by Rudi Hopfner, the director of the Musik instrument collection of the KHM, which to my knowledge is the most up-to-date. (If the link doesn't work, enter “Alban” into search, not Albani) http://www.musiklexikon.ac.at/ml?frames=yes

One must appreciate that the route Innsbruck/Bozen/Padua/Venice was a well trodden path, as I recently noticed once again, listening to a programme with Otto Biba in Austrian radio about the contacts between the Innsbruck and Venice Opera in the 18th. C.

I don't consider the violin to be a Mayr, since I have a very nice one here that I compared it with, but something nice from Austria, from about that period (1730ish). We spoke about David Hill certificates in a different thread recently, and I can't help saying that I haven't seen one that could be taken seriously yet, although I suppose the German saying that “even a blind hen finds her corn” probably applies.

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look again - David Hill certificates have a generic picture of a front and back, as well as photographs of the violin being "certified".

A bit confusing having all those other pictures. Implies comparison and "value".

I think a certificate should be a numbered document on watermarked security paper

that can be referenced with a houses book of business.

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This violin seems altogether a much worthier beast than the sad "Chappuy", and I look forward to hearing more about it.

Lovely f-holes, a very distinctive flattish area around the corners, fantastic spruce and lovely varnish - decent back length too.

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This violin was listed at a Dutch website a couple of times, the seller asked €25.000 for it then.

 

IF it's real, 9.000 would be a steal even 25.000 would be considered cheap. I personally like the violin and if it sounds good 9.000 would not be a bad price for this violin, the only question is, what is it?

 

I have some free time this week so I think I'll have a look at this violin as the seller is only 90 minutes away from me.

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Indeed, in fact at first I thought it was you who was selling it!

There seems to be a good deal of educated discussion about whether there's such a thing as an Albani, but I'm not up on it. If there is (such a thing as an Albani), I can't see that it would look like this.

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There seems to be a good deal of educated discussion about whether there's such a thing as an Albani,

What the hell are you talking about, of course there is “such a thing as an Albani” in fact there were several of them. I linked the details to Oringo in post #8. Flatulence again!

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I think, the problem about the Albani family is not, if their members once lived in Bozen and Graz (the youngest), but if we can find reliable reference objects, because, as Oringo mentioned, there are too many "ascribed to Albani" instruments out there.

Here we have one (and another one in the shop)

http://www.ebay.de/itm/A-rare-fine-certified-violin-by-Mathias-Albani-1670-/290601290895?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a92fcc8f

certified by Gartsman himself. Is this reliable in any way (and I don't talk about the exorbitant price)?

There are some affinities to the OP violin, mainly the ffs, which are also similar to many other ffs of the Füssen or austrian school; very different are the edges (bulging at the Gartsman violin, flat and narrow at the OP) and the varnish, which seems to be thicker and heavy crackled at Mariam's.

I have another in my old "Fuchs-Taxe der Streichinstrumente" (edited by Zunterer and Baumgartner 1991), which looks similar to Gartsman's, but the description in this booklet mentions Albani as "very often copied", and opinions can change within this more than 20 years.

Basing on this confusing facts or the absence of undiscussed reference instruments, but too many dubious attributions, one can humorously ask, if there were such things as Albani violins at all.

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I think, the problem about the Albani family is not, if their members once lived in Bozen and Graz (the youngest), but if we can find reliable reference objects, .

Bozen, Graz, Linz and Vienna (worked for Viennese Hofgeigenmacher Anton Stephan Posch/J.J. Stadlmann) if you want to be exact.

You are quite right that one will not find a reference example in any Ebay or similar website. There are reference instruments in private ownership and in Museums. The Ferdinandeum in Innsbruck is worth a visit for instance

http://www.musikland-tirol.at/musikinstrumente/musikinstrumenteinhalt/dietirolerschule/index.php

I believe that the Schweizer Geigenbauverband just had a lecture/exibition, since the Person giving the lecture compared notes with me several week ago. With a bit of luck some sort of publication should emerge

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I received a lot of new information from the seller. He purchased the violin on ebay himself and paid more for it than the 9.000. He wants to sell the violin because of different opinions about it's origin, Serge Stam in the Netherlands thought the violin was made early 1700's while Phillip Scott in the UK thought it was 19th century around 1850. Basically the seller wants a 17th century violin. Though I personally would not sell a violin because it's not 300 years old, if the violin sounds incredible why sell it?

 

I am going to have a look at the violin on Thursday.

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