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Sam Z violin for sale

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Carl, I am not going to explain what I consider fairly basic business ethics. Or why it should apply on internet forums. Work it out yourself.

 

What are you talking about ???? What's this all got to do with business ethics ??? This is got to do with "professional courtesy",

a ( rather dirty ) habit which backfired many a time and was and IS often used to collude into ripping off the customer. 

Times have changed BIG TIME :) and not only anybody involved in selling wares must WELCOME harsh public scrutiny but even

people living off investments are expected not to enter into relations with dubious entities. At least they must be "green"

and PC. :)

 

Given the colossal problems triggered by "entities" who labored under the idea that their business is their own to carry as they see fit, I

would consider anybody who objects having his price structure scrutinized to be a de facto crook. On this Earth, from mega multinationals

to Mikey Mouse violin makers, everybody IS adjusting to working to a level of transparency not to be imagined even 30 years ago.

 

And by the way, charging "whatever" for goods or services is ILLEGAL in most sentient jurisdictions. And in the 3-4 I am familiar with,

should push come to shove, I ( myself ) would have to prove to The Court that my now unhappy client was fully competent in his

purchasing decision, or it's "money back".

 

There was an often ventured idea here on MN that dealers are "dirty" and "living makers" are "clean". Let's wait and see but my

gut tells me there will be some surprises.

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What other option do I have if I want an instrument from maker X?  Let's assume I discover that a player wants to sell his maker X violin, but the asking price is very high.  Should I pay it?  Well, it's the only way I'll get a maker X violin, and I'll get it immediately, not in years.  What's an acceptable price for me?  Only I, the buyer, can know that number.  Only I know what my cash reserves are and how badly I want that fiddle.

 

Are you a user or a "collector" ?

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Sam Z's violins have entered a different realm where the standard market forces are no longer at play. That is to say that they are viewed and valued in the same way that "art" is.  Once that process starts there is no way to tell how the market will respond to an offering. Look at the old Italian violins and what's been going on in the art world for decades. After plugging all of the known (and onknowable) data into my sale prediction calculator I have come up with the number at which it will sale. (Jeffrey, don't get mad at me for this irresponsible speculation;  who the hell am I anyway?):  $118,000. Why not?

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Are you a user or a "collector" ?

 

The scenario I presented may look like one that represents a collector's thinking -- I just have to have that certain fiddle for my collection and price be damned -- but I think the scenario might also represent the thinking of a player:  The player knows the instrument, has heard it in person and recordings and even played it, and knows that the owner of many years is a very competent soloist.  So that makes the instrument a known quantity and a concert soloist worthy violin.  Sure, there are contemporary violins that might cost less, but, our imagined player knows that this violin, at six figures, sounds better than any currently available old Italian which is concert soloist worthy, all of which are in the 7 figures. 

 

So, leaving the imaginary world and returning to that of Jenson's Zygmuntowicz, this instrument, at about one-tenth the price of a concert worthy old Italian, is a bargain.

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Sam Z's violins have entered a different realm where the standard market forces are no longer at play. That is to say that they are viewed and valued in the same way that "art" is.  

 

 

...or the laws of physics.  :lol:

 

Sam Z is a GREAT guy but nobody escapes market forces, eventually. 

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 Sure, there are contemporary violins that might cost less, but this violin, at six figures, sounds better than any currently available old Italian which is concert soloist worthy, all of which are in the 7 figures.  So this instrument, at about one-tenth the price of a concert worthy old Italian, is a bargain.

 

 

I am clueless as to how " any currently available old Italian which is concert soloist worthy" sounds or compares with this one. You may be right.

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Sam Z is a GREAT guy but nobody escapes market forces, eventually. 

 

The market forces are working for Zygmuntowicz right now and for the foreseeable future.  His instruments are competing sucessfully with concert worthy old Italians, at one-tenth the price, even if the price of a Zygmuntowicz is 6 figures.

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So, leaving the imaginary world and returning to that of Jenson's Zygmuntowicz, this instrument, at about one-tenth the price of a concert worthy old Italian, is a bargain.

[Cuddling her favorite old English rubbish while recovering from shock] "There, there, honey, just ignore him.  The nasty man wouldn't know a real bargain like you if he found one on eBay" [returns to playing her "Strad without slavery" at about one-three-thousandth the price of a concert worthy old Italian] :P:lol: :lol:

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I am clueless as to how " any currently available old Italian which is concert soloist worthy" sounds or compares with this one. You may be right.

 

I was being hypothetical, imagining a possible scenario, and I can be faulted for that.  If you want a real situation in which a real player of a Stradivari considers whether he should give up his Strad for a Zygmuntowicz, read John Marchese's The Violin Maker.  That book presents the long and difficult process Eugene Drucker goes through in choosing between his Strad and a new Zygmuntowicz.  The Strad is hardly the clear winner.

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I was being hypothetical, imagining a scenario, and I can be faulted for that.  If you want a real situation in which a real player of a Stradivari considers whether he should give up his Strad for a Zygmuntowicz, read John Marchese's The Violin Maker.  That book presents the long and difficult process Eugene Drucker goes through in choosing between his Strad and a new Zygmuntowicz.  The Strad is hardly the clear winner.

 

It's GREAT to hear that new violins compete successfully with "Old Italians" and I am sure many do. On MN there is a bit of a bias towards American makers but Europe has it's own and they're not doing too shabby a job either.In other words, the violin world does not spin around Sam Z and we should probably tone down a bit this "personality cult" because it IS unfair towards other makers be them European or American. My opinion does not matter in the least but I don't have a problem with "moderns" beating "Strads" - quite the contrary, I hope it keeps on happening.  

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It's GREAT to hear that new violins compete successfully with "Old Italians" and I am sure many do. On MN there is a bit of a bias towards American makers but Europe has it's own and they're not doing too shabby a job either.In other words, the violin world does not spin around Sam Z and we should probably tone down a bit this "personality cult" because it IS unfair towards other makers be them European or American. My opinion does not matter in the least but I don't have a problem with "moderns" beating "Strads" - quite the contrary, I hope it keeps on happening.  

 

You are right that we could mention any number of other makers, all around the world, who are making successful concert quality instruments. 

 

However, I doubt that pointing out the success of Zygmuntowicz will mean that other contemporary makers will be selling fewer instruments.  One might hope that Zygmuntowicz's success will lead more professional players to look at contemporary makers as a possible source for their instruments.

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Drucker was 1st. violin of the now defunct Emerson Quartet.  David Finckel once famously touted   Sam's cello in the Strad magazine, comparing it favorably with a real Stradivarius.  However, as I mentioned earlier, there could easily be quid pro quos involved, just as I suspect in the Stern case.

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Drucker was 1st. violin of the now defunct Emerson Quartet.  David Finckel once famously touted   Sam's cello in the Strad magazine, comparing it favorably with a real Stradivarius.  However, as I mentioned earlier, there could easily be quid pro quos involved, just as I suspect in the Stern case.

 

It was rhetorical... :)  I spent some time listening to them playing on the Z instruments. Then I moved on.

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Drucker was 1st. violin of the now defunct Emerson Quartet. 

 

Is the Emerson Quartet defunct?  Here's their current performance calendar from their website.  It looks like they are still performing.  However, David Finckel is no longer the cellist, so membership has recently changed, but Eugene Drucker, as a founding member, is still there.

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Very interesting comments, but doesn't it all come down to personal taste since tone qualities are indeed subjective? Mr. Z. does make nice looking fiddles, from what I've seen through pictures online.

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There is a lot of history and a lot of violins sitting between a Guadagnini and a Sam Z! If violinists didn't primarily buy labels with violins attached they would discover that.

The fact that a superb modern violin can be had for a tenth of the price of a fine Italian does not necessarily denote that the new violin is a bargain - it might equally denote that the Italian is a rip-off. Much of the research/marketing being carried out in support of the first contention can equally be applied in support of the second.

:o  ;)  :ph34r:  ... emoticons denoting irony inserted on the advice of the Martin Swan Violins director of Wisdom Information Friendliness and Empathy (W.I.F.E.)

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Very interesting comments, but doesn't it all come down to personal taste since tone qualities are indeed subjective? 

 

Not really. Recordings and inept "teaching" have create a strong expectation that violins sound a certain way. 

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