Sam Z violin for sale

[Carl Stross]

Says here that the violin made for Stern in 1994 sold for $130K at Tarisio in 2003. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Zygmuntowicz , so the price isn't outrageous.  Given the reviews of Dylana playing hers however, one wonders why she is selling it, and hopes the reasons are only happy ones.

 

Downright cheap considering the kind of tone it has.

[hendrik]

Dylana Jenson is quite a noted concert violinist, a famous child prodigy (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylana_Jenson for details).  She made acclaimed recordings of the Sibelius concerto with Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra in the early 1980s.  She's a good example of why there can be trouble with the loaning of instruments to performers.  Jensen made her famous recordings and early concert performances playing on a 1743 Guarneri del Gesu violin that was loaned to her.  When she announced that she was going to get married the owner of the instrument took it back on short notice because he felt she couldn't be serious about her career if she was going to marry.  After playing on different instruments she acquired a Zygmuntowicz violin in 1995 which she used in concerts and found excellent.  I suppose that's the instrument she is selling

 

After losing the Del Gesu Dylana had great difficulties finding a suitable violin. She sometimes  performed on borrowed instruments that were sub - par.

Sam Z did a bit of tinkering with that fiddle before it was to Dylana's liking. She has had it for quite a while now.

 

Why is she selling it now? Her career isn't over yet. -- Maybe she found a Burgess that is just as good and wants to capitalize on her

name selling this violin .

After all Tarisio has sold some notable ex -famous soloist - fiddles for a lot of dough.

 

Sam Z's violins may be very good but are they so much better than the rest of the top makers? I don't know but I doubt it. Have certainly spoken with some very knowledgeable people that weren't of that opinion.

 

Here a nice very thorough comparison between some old and new fiddles with many top makers in the ring.

http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?id=10712 

 

Needham came out very well but a rerun with a number of others or even different violins from the same makers would probably show different results. There are so many outstanding makers now and so many outstanding new violins.

[l33tplaya]

And who is "GoldenPlate" to say so?  Last time I checked, no experts of note came from LaLa Land.  

Bite your tongue , oh silicon valley fakir.  Watch what city you nick name!  We still have no professional football team, but do have Midori, Shindarov, Harel, etc.  Maybe we have our priorities in order?  There are lots of great shops:  Cauer, Weishaar (Ettinger now), Metzler, Muller, Benning, etc.  None of these guys run out of their apartment, though we think some of them are so dedicated they practically live there...And many luthiers from one man shops, too.  Plus some not so great luthiers, though they think they are good.  Let's see, there's the summer maker's camp at Pomona, LA Phil, New West, LA Opera, need I go on? As far as schools with great violin programs, there is U$C, UCLA, and the Coburn school.  Heifetz's original studio is now at the Coburn school.

 

Need I go on?

[fiddlecollector]

Cant seem to access the 2nd page of this thread for some reason, but personally i think the asking price is ridiculous.

[Rue]

I can't access the second page of this thread.

 

I see there are now two posts regarding the violin for sale.  The original is still in the general discussion section (perhaps this was an oversight) and there is a second in the designated 'commercial' section which at least makes some sense.

 

I suppose...if it were me...selling a high priced instrument...this is the last approach I'd take.  First I would go to the luthier...given he is still luthiering ...then I would go to some higher end shops...then maybe try the auction...spread the word in orchestras (via their newsletter perhaps)...I'm sure there are some venues I missed.

 

Carl:  You have confused me.  You don't know who Dylana Jenson is...but you state it's a fabulous instrument and that she's a high calibre player...

[AtlVcl]

Not to pick nits, but talented luthiers are known to make instruments for famous players with the (tacit) understanding that the latter should praise the effort, if possible.  A man of high integrity though he may have been, it didn't cost Isaac Stern anything to praise Sam's violin.  He helped further the career of a wonderful young-ish maker, who surely wrote off the cost as "marketing." The only reason that particular violin sold for an outrageous sum after Stern's death was because it belonged to one of the most famous of 20th. century violinists, NOT a young also-ran (so far...sorry!)  As of this point in time, Ms. Jenson hasn't yet attained any notoriety that would make her violin worth that kind of money, even to a collector.

Your opinion may vary.

[MeyerFittings]

If the "powers that be" somehow cut off access to the second page of this discussion because it was getting a bit tacky, and personal -- I agree with that motive. Not the usual way to go about it though is it?

[David Hart]

For some reason can't acces second page

[Carl Stross]

 

 

Carl:  You have confused me.  You don't know who Dylana Jenson is...but you state it's a fabulous instrument and that she's a high calibre player...

 

It's the NEW me. The OLD me would've said she's an inept player, barely hits a note, butchers Kreisler's cadenza and that the violin is pretty crappy. But I'm on new meds and they work. How do I know that ? Simple : Stern appears to me now as a man of spotless integrity. Now, THAT's medication that works.

[Carl Stross]

Not to pick nits, but talented luthiers are known to make instruments for famous players with the (tacit) understanding that the latter should praise the effort, if possible.  A man of high integrity though he may have been, it didn't cost Isaac Stern anything to praise Sam's violin.  He helped further the career of a wonderful young-ish maker, who surely wrote off the cost as "marketing." The only reason that particular violin sold for an outrageous sum after Stern's death was because it belonged to one of the most famous of 20th. century violinists, NOT a young also-ran (so far...sorry!)  As of this point in time, Ms. Jenson hasn't yet attained any notoriety that would make her violin worth that kind of money, even to a collector.

Your opinion may vary.

 

My meds must be wearing off and I find it hard to disagree....  

[vlyosifov]

 

 

The violin here : ( 1:25  )

 

 

 

What would be this instrument? Is it the Del Gesu which was on loan to her? 

 

I also like this one more but I don't dislike the one from Tchaikovsky video. I think that has to be kept in mind the way both performances were recorded, because it can change drastically the sound. Beethoven, seems more like professional recording and on Tchaikovsky clip is rather made with hand recorder. I am also interested to know what is the set up of both violins because this also changes the sound character..something makes me thing that on Beethoven she uses gut D and G strings, and on Tchaikovsky  synthetic strings (Evah or maybe Vision)...

Anyway it is nice to hear and compare the same player with Del Gesu (?) and with violin by one of the leading contemporary makers!

[JohnCockburn]

can anyone really judge the quality of instruments based on youtube clips?

[Torbjörn Zethelius]

Not to pick nits, but talented luthiers are known to make instruments for famous players with the (tacit) understanding that the latter should praise the effort, if possible.  A man of high integrity though he may have been, it didn't cost Isaac Stern anything to praise Sam's violin.  He helped further the career of a wonderful young-ish maker, who surely wrote off the cost as "marketing." The only reason that particular violin sold for an outrageous sum after Stern's death was because it belonged to one of the most famous of 20th. century violinists, NOT a young also-ran (so far...sorry!)  As of this point in time, Ms. Jenson hasn't yet attained any notoriety that would make her violin worth that kind of money, even to a collector.

Your opinion may vary.

You are making some outrageous implications here.

[fiddlecollector]

Come on does anyone really think a contempory violin is worth that much, and all these people spouting on about it ,do they really believe his instruments sound  10 times better than what any of the well accomplished makers on here could produce. Clever marketing hype and suckering up to well regarded players is what drives these silly prices and even sillier people with too much money to spend.

[Carl Stross]

can anyone really judge the quality of instruments based on youtube clips?

 

Of course. Many can.

[Carl Stross]

You are making some outrageous implications here.

 

No he does not. He's actually very restrained.

[JohnCockburn]

Of course. Many can.

Well, clearly you think you can. I think it's nonsensical. Keep taking the tablets.

[Carl Stross]

Well, clearly you think you can. I think it's nonsensical. Keep taking the tablets.

 

As a man of science it would be more productive to figure out first if there are ( hard to believe, I know ! ) 

things you do not know, understand or are incapable of doing. You believe you and I are listening to the same

"stuff" in a violin. My rather vast experience tells me we do not.  

A violin is a machine and needs to do certain tasks well, way ahead of minor issues like..."tone".Same for a piano

or a Symph Orch.

[GoldenPlate]

Well, since we are discussing Sam Z here, here are some photos from Sam Z's violin

[Carl Stross]

Well, since we are discussing Sam Z here, here are some photos from Sam Z's violin

 

Which one is the $149k part ?  

[GoldenPlate]

Which one is the $149k part ?  

Not shown here 

[Carl Stross]

[JohnCockburn]

As a man of science it would be more productive to figure out first if there are ( hard to believe, I know ! ) 

things you do not know, understand or are incapable of doing. You believe you and I are listening to the same

"stuff" in a violin. My rather vast experience tells me we do not.  

A violin is a machine and needs to do certain tasks well way ahead of minor issues like..."tone".Same for a piano

or a Symph Orch.

well Carl, we're all here to be educated. Problem is, you only ever respond with pithy little snippets. 

[Carl Stross]

well Carl, we're all here to be educated. Problem is, you only ever respond with pithy little snippets. 

 

You are absolutely right. ( you see ? meds are working...   )

[Don Noon]

Weren't the recent high (over $100k) priced contemporary instruments bench copies, i.e. painstaking detailed copies of famous Cremonese instruments?  And didn't the owners die?  And does anybody really think that the high price had much to do with what they sounded like?

 

Is a fabulous-sounding factory instrument worth even $10k? 

 

I think it is makes no sense for anyone to pay $149k for the instrument in question.  However, there is some logic to asking for $149k on a forum... it gets a bunch of people buzzing.  Free advertising.  People who had never heard of her before now have.  That's the only angle that makes sense to me.

 

By the way, I do think Sam makes wonderful instruments.  So do some other makers.  I can only hope (for my own sake) that fabulous sound alone is worth tens of thousands of dollars... but I know that ain't gonna happen.