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Orange varnish. Why, oh why!?


Rue

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1 hour ago, MikeC said:

Peter, that certainly looks too dark, almost black.  

Joe do you have a varnish that looks like the Strad I posted earlier?  

Joe makes a cochineal varnish that is specifically targeted at the Stradivari look, based on a good deal of research. The technique is up to the user, but the tools are sound. 

Regarding my article, the publisher owns it as a result of printing it and so my options are limited. 

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1 hour ago, Peter K-G said:

Is it too dark, that's a question I haven't answer myself yet.

I'm working on a pigment/color free varnish that is easy to use.

From left no sealing to sealed

Same varnish from the same jar:

3D52FEF6-A1E7-43E1-BA16-BC6257127084.thumb.jpeg.d9f6867e969740b5a7297fdaf1095f88.jpeg

The two on the right look much better, much less burned.  

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4 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

Regarding my article, the publisher owns it as a result of printing it and so my options are limited. 

Unless you specifically assigned copyright to the publisher then you should still retain copyright of the text and can do what you like with it. The publisher only has copyright over the layout. 
In other words, you can post the text here but not a pdf or jpg of the article as it appeared in the publication. 

At least, that is how it works in the UK. 

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12 hours ago, MikeC said:

The two on the right look much better, much less burned.  

Yes they do look much better. I have done a lot of tests like this to try to understand my varnish.

One thing about burned. If the definition burned, is what I have read that the flames are kind of fixed by to much dark color, then none of the examples are burned, because even the darkest one is reflecting normally in different light angles.

I'm now working on a ground based on filler and the same dark varnish..

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  • 3 months later...

Digging up an old Orange thread. 

I have pics of the Chardon and would like to get that color but not sure how to.

And the Peter of Mantua that Joe posted looks awesome, I wouldn't know how to get that look either.  

This is just a simple oil varnish with madder lake pigment.  Kind of orange but not ugly pumpkin.

Outdoors and indoors for comparison.

 

outside sun.jpg

Indoors brown.jpg

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5 hours ago, MikeC said:

Digging up an old Orange thread. 

I have pics of the Chardon and would like to get that color but not sure how to.

And the Peter of Mantua that Joe posted looks awesome, I wouldn't know how to get that look either.  

This is just a simple oil varnish with madder lake pigment.  Kind of orange but not ugly pumpkin.

Outdoors and indoors for comparison.

 

outside sun.jpg

Indoors brown.jpg

 

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On 1/29/2014 at 8:46 AM, Rue said:

So - if you wanted a really dark brown violin (but not an opaque one that looks black...just that rich dark brown that still shows the grain)...how do you go about it?

Good question. The simple answer to getting a dark instrument is that you go dark early. Brown is made of yellow, red, and black (primary colors). If you use yellow first, you are going to be fighting it from then on (voice of experience). You need at least two colors to make it rich and dichromatic, and you don’t have to use the primary colors but can use premixed red-brown and dark brown layers. If it is not dark enough add a black layer. If you need richness go with a red layer. Experiment on scrap wood and let me know what you find. I went down this road to find a golden brown. I feel sure you can do the same with dark brown. You want to get there in as few coats as possible, for transparency. 

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8 hours ago, FiddleMkr said:

Brown is made of yellow, red, and black (primary colors).

I'd rather describe brown as being made from red, yellow and blue. Without blue, there are some shades which cannot be mixed or made.
Black isn't a “color”, per se. It is the absence of light. So a black pigment won't mix with the yellow and blue to alter the reflected light wavelengths to form brown. I will just diminish the intensity of the yellow and red.

Extreme example: Purple can not be made without blue. It can not be made from any combination of primary red, primary yellow, and black.

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1 hour ago, David Burgess said:

I'd rather describe brown as being made from red, yellow and blue. Without blue, there are some shades which cannot be mixed or made.
Black isn't a “color”, per se. It is the absence of light. So a black pigment won't mix with the yellow and blue to alter the reflected light wavelengths to form brown. I will just diminish the intensity of the yellow and red.

Extreme example: Purple can not be made without blue. It can not be made from any combination of primary red, primary yellow, and black.

My bad. Black is not a primary color. You are correct.

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3 hours ago, David Burgess said:

I'd rather describe brown as being made from red, yellow and blue. Without blue, there are some shades which cannot be mixed or made.
Black isn't a “color”, per se. It is the absence of light. So a black pigment won't mix with the yellow and blue to alter the reflected light wavelengths to form brown. I will just diminish the intensity of the yellow and red.

Extreme example: Purple can not be made without blue. It can not be made from any combination of primary red, primary yellow, and black.

100% agree. Real life example - Koen Padding's brown "paints" were shown to be a mix of madder lake (red) and pthalo green (a secondary color made of yellow and blue, just as Burgess said). 

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Here's an orange I just cooked up today, just smeared onto some bare wood. So not indicative of what it will look like over ground, though I can share that in a day or two. I'm planning to use this orange madder rosinate varnish mixed with some walnut brown iron rosinate and a dash of lac crimson rosinate. I like making a palette of different colored varnishes to mix until I get the actual color I want. 

IMG20230604121141.jpg

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23 minutes ago, MikeC said:

Jackson, that looks good!  

Does anyone know how to make orange madder lake?  Kremer sells it but I don't know how they separate the usual red from orange.

Thanks, Mike! I think it's an ok color. I like my other madder orange rosinate better, it's more complex. This was just a fun experiment I did today. 

Kremer's orange madder lake is fine. Jordan Hess at Sugarhouse Violins sells a much superior lake, which I make. It's a bit cheaper, too. 

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On 6/4/2023 at 12:13 PM, JacksonMaberry said:

though I can share that in a day or two.

Ok, so I forgot about this promise until after I had already done my separator coats (I do 1-2 coats of a mostly colorless varnish between the ground and the color coats), but here is some of that orange madder rosinate experiment hastily padded into the top of the separator coat.

IMG20230606065931.thumb.jpg.0341fc6e544afa10984f7c2c77868777.jpg

I am not into the look of this stuff on its own. But as the larger portion of a blend (4 parts Madder Orange, 2 parts Walnut Brown, 1 part Lac Crimson) I like it rather well. 

IMG20230606070350.thumb.jpg.ada674b24c3b7fdbdb6d0164c98a3490.jpg

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On 6/6/2023 at 10:04 AM, JacksonMaberry said:

Ok, so I forgot about this promise until after I had already done my separator coats (I do 1-2 coats of a mostly colorless varnish between the ground and the color coats), but here is some of that orange madder rosinate experiment hastily padded into the top of the separator coat.

IMG20230606065931.thumb.jpg.0341fc6e544afa10984f7c2c77868777.jpg

I am not into the look of this stuff on its own. But as the larger portion of a blend (4 parts Madder Orange, 2 parts Walnut Brown, 1 part Lac Crimson) I like it rather well. 

IMG20230606070350.thumb.jpg.ada674b24c3b7fdbdb6d0164c98a3490.jpg

I really like the golden brown like it is.

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