Bill Warren Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I have a question or two for those of you who have seen the 1716 Messiah Strad in person in good light, and perhaps have held it in your hands. I've seen all sorts of photos of the Messiah, and I have the Strad poster of it. The black and white photos make it look very dark. The top's texture photo of the treble f-hole makes it look reddish-orange. The photos of it with the Lady Blunt make it look golden-brown. The Strad poster makes it look the lightest golden-brown of all the pictures. What is the real color of the 1716 Messiah Strad violin? (Or at least to which picture should I try to match the finish on my copy of it?) Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Christopher Jacoby Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 It is both those colors! Depends what light it has. Joe might chime in-- he compared Cremonese varnish' dichroic states at the Varnish Roundtable talk at the VSA last year. It will range from light oxblood to soft orange-gold, depending how much light is penetrating the varnish to bounce around the ground. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter K-G Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Maybe it looks like this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter K-G Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (Image view not working?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott S Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (Image view not working?) I've had the same problem for a couple of days now. Scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joerobson Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 It is both those colors! Depends what light it has. Joe might chime in-- he compared Cremonese varnish' dichroic states at the Varnish Roundtable talk at the VSA last year. It will range from light oxblood to soft orange-gold, depending how much light is penetrating the varnish to bounce around the ground. Most pictures we see of intruments are taken face on...at 90 degrees to the face of the plate. This is the angle where the varnish will appear the "lightest". As we move our line of observation from 90 degrees out to a more oblique angle the varnish will appear to get darker and often to change color. Joe Joe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Beard Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Different photos from the web certainly do give wildly different impressions. My guess would be a reddish brown stain into the courser features of the wood, then an intense brilliant yellow staining. Over this a reddish somewhat brownish colored glaze that, depending on lighting, sometimes dominiates but at other times lets the under colors shine through. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Burgess Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 It is both those colors! Depends what light it has. Agreed, except I might say that "it is all ten of those colors". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
violinoalto Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Hm the Messiah Strad looks like it did vuillame Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Christopher Jacoby Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Anyone recall what VSA journal had the fictional confession by Vuillaume about making Le Messie and failing to be found out when he jokingly presented the "Strad" he'd found? And who the author was? A little digging through my back-blue-books hasn't turned it up... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uguntde Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Die orange colour is what you see in the light in which it is presented in the Ashmolean. Just like this picture: http://www.platetuning.org/Messiah2.jpg When I first saw this, I was quite astonished. I walked by it many times since, and always see the same orange. Also, when it hung next to the lady Blunt, one could see that it lacks these red pigments that the Blunt has. I also see those in the Archinto. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Torbjörn Zethelius Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 It is all those colors. In a bright lit room (Stradivarius exhibition in Oxford) it is light orange. In a darker room it is deep red as I recall (from about 20 years ago). And it is not a Vuillaume. Never was, never will be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LinkMan Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 "Being able to see color is a sensation, just like smelling a pie fresh out of the oven or tasting your favorite meal. Different foods smell and taste different to each person, and likewise, no color is seen exactly the same by two people, because each person's rods and cones vary." - www.fi.edu/color Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Will L Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 What I remember from years ago, bad lighting, and being loaned a flashlight was that the "home color" was a bit more yellow than the picture posted in post 11. The varnish seemed first class, but not exciting (only MO, of course). One thing I noticed was that where there is some shading from wear of hands on the back, the violin looked better, and I thought one could see from that the violin turning nicely into what we're used to seeing if it became more worn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Burgess Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Die orange colour is what you see in the light in which it is presented in the Ashmolean. Just like this picture: http://www.platetuning.org/Messiah2.jpg Hah, that picture was stolen from my website! Some photos of the Lady Blunt and the Messiah, side-by-side, on the Tarisio website: http://tarisio.com/wp/2011/06/the-lady-blunt-and-messiah-together-again/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter K-G Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Some of us can not view images in certain threads when clicking on them, only tumb images are displayed. The url redirect malicious code is also back on the server side http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/329670-virus-alert-when-joining-to-forum/http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/329853-viewing-images-not-working-newer-uploaded-images/ Is there anyone who can view the images in this thread? Maybe we could push a little together, so admin Jeffrey sent an e-mail to admin yesterday too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Will L Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 BTW, aside from the recent show, is the Messiah still being shown as it was for years? Or have they figured out a way of presenting it in a better way? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Christopher Jacoby Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Like with the girls from lowrider car shows, Will? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kev Chanot Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 When I first saw Le Messie 20 years ago it looked orange-brown.Recently,when viewed at the Stradivarius exhibition it still looked orange-brown especially next to the Lady Blunt (Which I think is a much better colour). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolfjk Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I seen Le Messie three times in three different rooms and each time the varnish looked different. In the Ashmolean exibition it stood out like sore thumb amongst the other strads, especially viewed from some distance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kev Chanot Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I seen Le Messie three times in three different rooms and each time the varnish looked different. In the Ashmolean exibition it stood out like sore thumb amongst the other strads, especially viewed from some distance. Sore thumbs are usually RED,though ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Will L Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Like with the girls from lowrider car shows, Will? I haven't seen those, but I think I ought to check one out. ( NO! I think I should DEFINITELY check one out!) But I can imagine how the "Messiah" might be presented at the NAMM show. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Burgess Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 A little "color reality check". Try to memorize the color of of some surface in your house (which you see every day), and then try to pick that color out of the samples in a paint store. Then paint a swatch of that color on the memorized surface, and notice how far off you were. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carl Stross Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 A little "color reality check". Try to memorize the color of of some surface in your house (which you see every day), and then try to pick that color out of the samples in a paint store. Then paint a swatch of that color on the memorized surface, and notice how far off you were. Just tried ! PERFECT match. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joerobson Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Just tried ! PERFECT match. White house Carl? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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