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scale in c# which finger


saintjohnbarleycorn
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Unless there was some reason, such as being in half-position or playing a chord, the third.  There could be other reasons, but the example you gave was playing a scale.

 

BTW, if you are starting on the G, you'd be playing the G Major or minor scale.  Neither calls for a C sharp.

 

A M has a C sharp. So would B M and B m.

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Unless there was some reason, such as being in half-position or playing a chord, the third.  There could be other reasons, but the example you gave was playing a scale.

 

BTW, if you are starting on the G, you'd be playing the G Major or minor scale.  Neither calls for a C sharp.

 

A M has a C sharp. So would B M and B m.

 

HE said "on" not "with". :) :) :)

...and that should be enough to secure the launch of a LONG thread.

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Oh, dear. Thanks Carl. :)

If one played a B M or m scale in 1st position, the C# would be played with the third finger, probably mainly because the D# would best be played with the 4th finger before going over to the D string. If one played the same scale in second position, it would be played with the 2cd finger, most conveniently—though it COULD be played with the 3rd BUT NOT THE 4th, in this case. In fact, in all other scales other than the A M, there would be no C#. So, long story short, the C# on the lowest possible C# would only be played with the 4th finger rarely. But the C# above could certainly be played with the 4th.

However.... :) If we play the B flat minor IN 1st POSITION, the fourth finger would play D flat, which for all practicality is close to C# (and interchangeable on the piano). So, yes, in that case, the fourth would be appropriate in a scale starting on the G String.

Offered in the hope it will be sufficient to keep this from becoming the world's longest, most pedantic thread in history. :)

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HE said "on" not "with". :) :) :)

...and that should be enough to secure the launch of a LONG thread.

Oh, what the hell.......... let's prolong it at year's end for 'auld lang syne'

 

Without more precision in the original question,

the answer is C# could be played with any finger.

(e.g. 1st finger in 3rd position for a C# scale)

It could also be played with 4th easily with another scale, including in a chromatic scale.

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I can just see Watson wondering why a certain pupil of John Dunn could not have been the owner of a set of blood soaked music, which was dipped in his own blood and used to write "Rache" on the wall of the music room, next to a lovely harp.


 


"Holmes!  Good Lord, man!  How could you have deduced that?"


 


"Elementary, my good man.  The owner of that music would have been very erudite, for Mr. Dunn does not accept anyone without talent who has not studied at least 5 years already.  I can tell that by the proposed use of the 4th finger on this C#, do you see?"


 


"Harrumph, harrumph.  Yes, yes I do but...but Smedley WAS a pupil of Dunn."


 


"Quite so, Watson, dear old fellow.  But Smedley would have never used a 4th finger for that note.  Not in a million fortnights."


 


"And why not," Lestrade chirps in?  "You said 'e studied with that bloke, Dynn, Donne, or whatever.  Why would he NOT play that note with 'is 4th finger?"


 


"Elementary, Lestrade.  "Surely you have noticed.  Or have they taken your magnifier?  Not that you should need it, old boy.  Look at his fourth finger on his left hand."


 


"Why, 'e don't even 'ave one."  


 


"Ah, hah!  Well, there you have it,"  Holmes says with a wry smile. "And furthermore, we are lucky to have in the process also determined that Saintjohn has all four of his fingers, otherwise he would have had no interest in asking the question." 

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From this, we may deduce that the OP is missing a valuable ring, smokes Trichinopoly cigars, and hasn't read "A Study in Scarlet" in at least five years. Oh, and the handsome cab was actually quite ugly, according to the PC who helped the drunken man...

We twa hae paidl’d i' the burn,

frae morning sun till dine ;

But seas between us braid hae roar’d

sin auld lang syne.

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"I don't know if it's worth mentioning, Holmes, but in days of yore, the thumb could have been used as well, to sound C# on the G-string."

"Watson, you astonish"!

And there’s a hand, my trusty fiere !

and gie's a hand o’ thine !

And we’ll tak a right gude-willy waught,

for auld lang syne.

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sorry for the delay  and I hope I am not confusing the matter here. 

 

c# d# f f# g# ...

 

so I start with the 3rd on the c#  the 1234 fingers ending up with the 4th on the g# 

 

when I go back down the scale it seems more natural to keep the 1st on the d# and use the finger I played the g# ( 4th)  with to play the c# 

 

 you are sort of holding a pattern keeping your 1st finger on the d# and and moving over to the g string its easier to use the 4th , dropping it over to the c# , rather than stretch the 3rd finger up where the 4th is now naturally positioned . 

 

 is it better to stretch the 3rd for muscle memory ?? how is it taught? 

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Are you playing a chromatic scale?  If not, what key are you in?

 

What finger you use depends on what position you are playing in and also varies according to the music.  Sometimes you make 'alternative' finger choices that make that bit of music easier to play.  You can also slide a finger from one note to another...you can extend a finger (out of position) to hit a note...or you can shift.

 

The notes are the notes.  They don't change.  You can play them any way you want to. 

 

If you are still learning where the notes are and are learning patterning - that's a bit different, but I'm still not sure what you are asking.

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Sorry, I am a bit more confused than before.

I think you are describing a C# =D flat Major scale. In most—and maybe ALL—scale books there is no C# Major scale (only C# minor) Probably because it is much easier to deal with 5 flats than 6 sharps, and the results are the same, at least on tempered instruments.)

Usually. when we play scales we have a pattern. Galamian, for example, would start the D flat with the second finger in third position.

What you seem to be doing is starting a scale with whatever finger is appropriate for that note in first position.

So, with that in mind, starting the D flat tonic with the fourth finger makes perfectly good sense. But ordinarily I'd play it in third position with the second finger.

Coming back down, it would be just fine to use the fourth.  But I just went to the violin and if I thought of starting on the C# with the 3rd finger, I would play the D# with the fourth finger; the E# with the 1st (on the D string).  And come back down the same way.  This is, in effect, being in a "half position." 

If you are playing music, however, this might all be thrown out the window for tonal/musical reasons. For example, since I personally have a weak fourth finger, I might feel more comfortable using the 3rd finger on any note which was a long one, rather than the 4th.

Hope this helps. I think I understand what I said. :) I'll probably edit it a few times.

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Why would you "have" to start with a particular finger for this scale?

I doubt you are asking me, personally, but I do have an answer. I'm happy to accept disagreement, though. :)

Of course we don't have to start with any particular finger. But the choice of finger is effected by several things: where we are on the fingerboard and what comes next are two of those things.

In this case saintjohn wants to be in the vicinity of 1st position. If you start with the fourth finger, then what do you do? The next note will HAVE to be played in half-position on the D String (1st finger against the nut). There would be no other choice (unless you play two notes in a row by sliding the 4th finger). It isn't a comfortable position.

Better would be to start with the 3rd finger, then play the D# with the 4th finger still on the G string, then go to the D String. In this particular example, starting with either 3rd or 4th puts us in a bit of an awkward half position. But starting with the 3rd leads to more freedom of the hand, IMO.

If I was going to play this, I'd probably play it starting with the 1st finger, in a higher position, but that is not what saintjohn wanted to do.

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sorry for the confusion, I am working on patterns, starting with the third finger, and in the first position. hopefully the pattern will follow through to the next positions. 

 

 thanks for taking the time, i am trying to unlearn bad habits and being dependent on the open strings. 

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After taking violin in hand, I decided to recommend you learn to start this scale with both 3rd and 4th and learn to do both equally well. I spent about 5 minutes with it and realized I benefitted from the exercise. The intonation is the problem in these types of scales or keys that are sort of "in between the cracks" and cause a lot of us who love the favorite keys of D and A major to have to work to refine them.

I also decided starting with the 3rd or 4th each present slightly different problems and advantages. I'll let you figure out what they are, or if you find any difference at all. I was surprised to find I was more comfortable starting with the 4th.

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In my books the C# scale is called Db major (or "enharmonic C#) and starts on the G string. I always found it easier to play the major scale starting with the fourth finger on the G string, while starting with the third finger for the C# minor melodic and harmonic. On my Paxton scales and arpeggios book, the fourth finger is suggested for the D# (second note) of the melodic and harmonic scale.

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I have 2 versions of this paxton book of scales and arpeggios. the first one (bought for a few £) is a the new version obviously, and the C# scales are written as "Db major (enharmonic C#)" and notes are written as so on the partition, starting with a Db, the minor scales are called C# minor melodic and C# minor harmonic. the second Paxton book (bought for £0.60 in a charity shop), is a much older version and more complete, with its C# scale written as "C# major (enharmonic Db)", with all the notes in # starting with a C#. Funny that they switched from C# to Db for the major scale. Since I never went to music school, the Db notation for the major scale is easier to read in my opinion.

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The OP gives the option of starting on the 3rd or 4th finger.  You *could* play C# M/e m starting with any finger, in theory, but I think starting with the 2nd finger in the 3rd position is the best way to learn it. 

 

 

 

 

I agree with this.  I don't know why no one reads what I laboriously write.  :)  But the OP suggested, or hinted, (and all of his posts lead to confusion) in one of his posts that he is going through the possibilities in first position.  So obviously he wishes to start the note of a C#Major=D flat Major scale on the third or fourth finger.  A perfectly interesting and legitimate exercise.

 

Going through the 1 or 2 octave scales in first position, tells us a lot, and is beneficial, and a lot of people should be doing it, IMO, Saintjohn.

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I think I understand perfectly;  my attempt to be scholarly does not always come across well, and given that performance and teaching (v. scholarship) are my main things, I often inspire the scorn of true scholars.  I don't mind;  when they correct me, I learn, and that is all to the better. 

 

You have a lot to offer, so I will try to pay more attention.

 

Connie

Well, you have even more than I and many others to offer, Connie, and believe me your efforts in the educational field don't go without being appreciated.  I read everything you write.

 

And to be sure I was not disagreeing with what you said or how you said it.  My point was not really directed at you, and I apologize. I was perhaps frustrated that I spend so much time trying to be accurate and cover all the bases I can think of, and then sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't even bother.  But we probably ALL feel that way from time to time.   :)      

 

Will 

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