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Hi
 
These are may planes.
 
The big one is one I bought thinking in center joint.
 I flattened the bottom and sharpened the blade but for the moment is out of service because it has a big mouth (I though ¿mistake?)
Do you think it would work if I tune it? It is 48° angle blade and 66 cm long.
 
The middle size is which I use, is a cheap one, flattened bottom and well sharpened. It is 45° - 23 cm
 
The other is a low angle that I use for other purpose.
 
What do tou think about the large one, would work well or just save it on a shelf?
 
 
Regards 
Tango

 

Your large plane is similar to the one I use. If the throat is too large you can close it by adding a piece of wood under the blade or in front of the blade.

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These all planes from shops are really poor steel and iron. But they still can cost over 400 euros.

 

Naw, some of them are pretty good these days, right out of the box.

When I started out, these weren't available, so we spent a lot of time and money "blueprinting" and sprucing up what we could get.

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Listen. 

If this has to be boiled down, how about this:

Everybody here is passionate about violin making and has or is developing opinions about it.

But perhaps some have a little more on the line then others?

Violin making as a hobby for retirees with a pension as opposed to violin making school grads with bills to pay, or independents with no plan B because they love it.

When one group gets a little snippy with the other, perhaps it's to be expected.

If you can't easily join two plates, then you have no business making instruments.

Wait.

Sorry.

Make all the instruments you want, but making a violin does not make you a viable violin maker. PERIOD. 

 

So yes, Melvin was right. When the rubber hits the road, you will figure out how to "do it", to the best of your ability, rather then mucking around the internet looking for answers.

 

To paraphrase a recent poster, Knowing the limitations of your abilities is just as important as the actual skills you possess.

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When one group gets a little snippy with the other, perhaps it's to be expected.

If you can't easily join two plates, then you have no business making instruments.

Wait.

Sorry.

Make all the instruments you want, but making a violin does not make you a viable violin maker. PERIOD. 

 

So yes, Melvin was right. When the rubber hits the road, you will figure out how to "do it", to the best of your ability, rather then mucking around the internet looking for answers.

 

To paraphrase a recent poster, Knowing the limitations of your abilities is just as important as the actual skills you possess.

So who is right and who is wrong is the issue.

I don't see that at all.

Peter was just being thankful for the information,,,, as in gratitude.

and he was told "A craftsman will adjust his tools without needing advice."

someone else conferred that advice and experience is good.

The overall contention of this fourm in general seems to be that it is to ones best advantage

to obtain schooling, education and advice,,, to learn the trade, and I agree.

I also believe that someone can and has been very successful with minimal training.

It is an individual matter.

I found the two concepts incongruent and confusing.

"You can do it without advise if you're worth your weight,,,,, or you cannot possibly get it without proper training and or advice" which is it?

So I supposed that I should just buckle down and make real strads without ever hearing or seeing one.

And what are all these people doing here if it is not looking for and giving a few answers.

Why are they searching the internet, , mucking around where they have no business,,,,, who are THEY?

In my estimation they are people just like me and you,, and in my world I don't expect

to see this "snippiness" that you are on the lookout for.

At times Del Gesu seemed to have a hard time joining his plates,,

and oh the excuses that are made for him,,, no one bothered to tell him that he would never

be a viable violin maker.

But you know maybe someone did tell him that,,

so maybe he would sometimes get drunk in sorrow

and hack one out cause he had to pay the bills.

I believe that he was light years ahead of the others,

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Can sandpaper ever be used to any avail?

What if a poor kid doesn't have a plane?

I've been trying my best to resist chiming in and admitting that I did this because everyone will frown on it but I used sandpaper on my first one and the joint has no gaps and despite having been exposed to unfavorable environmental conditions for 20 years, I could probably stand on it without breaking it.  :)    I was clueless back then but it worked anyway. 

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I've been trying my best to resist chiming in and admitting that I did this because everyone will frown on it but I used sandpaper on my first one and the joint has no gaps and despite having been exposed to unfavorable environmental conditions for 20 years, I could probably stand on it without breaking it.  :)    I was clueless back then but it worked anyway.

I have always used a plane, until recently.

A real knurly piece of spruce kicked my butt,

and I could not get it flat across the grain, I inspect them very carefully.

It had some strange run out.

I do know how to sharpen things quite well, and things can only get so sharp.

So I worked with sandpaper until I figured out how to make it work.

and It works so well, I will never use a plane again.

(I did run it on a power jointer first)

But now I'm having a problem with my center joints,

In the spruce I cannot find the joint at all,

Used to be able to see it if I looked hard enough,,,

Oh,, all that frowning is good for the soul,

all that energy focused on little'ol me!

It's only because so many are concerned for the safety of my center joints,

It makes me feel needed.

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When I did my first one I knew almost nothing about violins and not much more about wood working.   I got all the edges square on a power jointer set to cut as little as possible especially on the maple to prevent tear out.   Then I used double sided tape to attach 600 grit wet dry paper to the edge of a four foot level and rubbed the joint surface back and forth on that until I thought it was smooth enough.   It turned out to be a total vso but that's because of awful arching not because of the center join. It was stored in a tool shed for 20 years of hot Georgia summers sometimes freezing winters and swings of humidity.  Neck popped off but the joint is still hanging in there!    

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Listen. 

If this has to be boiled down, how about this:

Everybody here is passionate about violin making and has or is developing opinions about it.

But perhaps some have a little more on the line then others?

Violin making as a hobby for retirees with a pension as opposed to violin making school grads with bills to pay, or independents with no plan B because they love it.

When one group gets a little snippy with the other, perhaps it's to be expected.

If you can't easily join two plates, then you have no business making instruments.

Wait.

Sorry.

Make all the instruments you want, but making a violin does not make you a viable violin maker. PERIOD. 

 

So yes, Melvin was right. When the rubber hits the road, you will figure out how to "do it", to the best of your ability, rather then mucking around the internet looking for answers.

 

To paraphrase a recent poster, Knowing the limitations of your abilities is just as important as the actual skills you possess.

Sorry.

I sound like a grumpy snoot.

 

I guess what gets my dander up is the fact that when actual violin makers (and by that I mean people that earn their bread and butter solely from making new instruments) pipe up with advice or admonishments regarding the difficulties of a particular skill set, or the necessities of having this or that firmly in hand, there often seems to be a chorus of people ready to disagree and argue that that advice is worth no more or less then what they themselves have to offer.

 

I don't know.

To me, the people that have always given me the best advice, the advice I've found most useful, are the ones that are able to use said advice to make their living. And I've found that these people often have the most simple, straightforward, manner of instruction. 

To Melvins point, If you happen to find yourself skilled enough to have someone waiting to pay you for your labor, you sure as hell are going to figure out how to solve any problems that you encounter, quickly and artfully.

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I hate it when I'm a grumpy ol snoot and I look up and the kids have a look that says,,

What is up with HIM !

I didn't see you as a grump,, but now I fully understand your points, and agree.

Why do people decide against or argue against experience (totally clueless)only to attempt the first time

their own way,, it is sometimes a slap in the face as well as an insult for the time spent trying to help.

That would make one a bit snippy,,,

I certainly have been guilty.

Most all that I know has come from someone taking that time to give me instruction.

I'm sorry that I flipped.

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Hey Michael,

I'll post the next back plate shaving I get, but if you watch at that video DBurns posted of the man planing the spruce joining edge - the maple shavings look about like that - the entire face comes off in a micro thin shaving.

 

There it is. A back plate joining edge being planed.

I know others posted, but I said I would also, so there it is - with my plane showing. 

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And how thick are these shavings, Craig? What kind of wood is this?

Hmmm,

 

a. I don't know how thick they are -

b. I don't bother making thickness measurements, because it doesn't matter to me, I just shave the wood's edge until it's flat.

These are the shavings I get when doing back wood. Does it really matter how thick they are? If you sharpen the blade well and take a thin shaving, you'll get this result. I am posting about what I do - plain and simple.

It doesn't really even matter what species of maple you use. Taking and adjusting for the main "split" that exists in the wood on that joining edge's face, is another thing I will watch and adjust for, as I can plain in either direction... depending on how I set up. (As you can see the man doing in the beginning of the video DBurns posted... which I wonder if perhaps some people here were wondering what and why that split was taken - or perhaps missed it entirely?)

But this type of thing (this type of detail) is important in hand planing - & why such posts may take a while to learn - in particular, when trying to do this type of thing in the beginning...

 

This wood is about twenty year old, Bigleaf Maple. But I have plained many and various maples and spruces this way, without ever having ANY difficulties.

 

This doesn't have to be the way anyone else does it. It's the way I do, and the results i get are shown here. I probably should have taken measurements but I didn't think I would ever need or use measurements of my scrap shavings.

 

I did go back into my photo files for this photo, since I wasn't planning on splitting/shaving another back billet any time real soon. This was done within about the last month, as I have split a spruce and a maple billet for another posting on another site... and this method is shown there also, as well as the glued results for both billets.

 

(This other site is where I got the "glue stain" information from also...)

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 Since I leave a tiny gap at the center of the joint to be closed by clamp pressure that means that the sole is not absolutely straight along it's length.

 

I have always been curious about this approach.  Nathan, if you read this and can explain the logic, I would appreciate it (or anyone else, of course).  One friend of mine from the Chicago School gave me an explanation that either didn't register or I have forgotten.  I have wondered whether the gap is arrived at by a gentle deepening from the very ends.  I know since it is done by fine makers and it holds it CAN be done, but I'm afraid of it for myself, considering my skills and eye.

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The reason I asked about the shaving thickness, is to get an idea of the blade height.

 

As for why I asked about the wood is that I noticed very large growth rings. This tree had very fast growth.

 

Thanks

 

Well then, I'm glad you asked.

That's a standard old Baily plane & blade - sharpened scary sharp up to about 1500 grit - with a blade holder. The cutting angle of the blade in the plane is standard. And I have sharpened the angle of the blade edge with the angle it came with.

I adjust my blade height (?) in the plane, by taking a shaving, adjusting, taking a shaving, adjusting, etc., etc., etc.

 

I'm curious exactly what you mean by blade height?

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Well then, I'm glad you asked.

That's a standard old Baily plane & blade - sharpened scary sharp up to about 1500 grit - with a blade holder. The cutting angle of the blade in the plane is standard. And I have sharpened the angle of the blade edge with the angle it came with.

I adjust my blade height (?) in the plane, by taking a shaving, adjusting, taking a shaving, adjusting, etc., etc., etc.

 

I'm curious exactly what you mean by blade height?

Depth of cut. 

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