New Bow Dilemma - Replace or Modify Frog or ...?

[Lenegrev]

Hi,

I was shopping for a bow and have shortlisted two within my budget. Both are intermediate workshop bows; one French and the other Swiss. I prefer the French bow more for its playability but have encountered a snag.

The problem lies in the way the frog on the French bow is crafted. My bow grip resembles the following with my thumb half on the frog and half on the wood of the gap between the leather and frog:

 

 

 

Looking at the circled part of the frog in the direction of the arrow:

 

 

 

The front profile the same part of the Swiss frog (Fig 1) compared to that of the French frog (Fig 2):



The French frog tapers to a point roughly represented by the red dot which really digs into my thumb and causes much pain after anything beyond half an hour of playing. I have no issue with the broader profile of the Swiss.

My luthier suggests two options:

1. Sand down the pointy part.

2. Replace the frog with a more comfortable model.

For obvious reasons, I am unwilling to go with Option 1. and also somewhat hesitant with Option 2.

Assuming that for my budget there are no other more suitable bows available (I'm neither in the U.S. nor Europe), how would the learned members on this forum counsel?

Should I just forgo the French bow?

All advice greatly appreciated.

P.S.

I found a link to a page describing a very similar problem to mine, except in their case, it's a matter of a sharp edge rather than a point. Both make for uncomfortable thumb contact and thus I believe any solution should be universal to both. The link is:

http://www.stringemporium.com/rubber-tube-bass-bow.htm

 

[PASEWICZ]

Is the French bow contemporary?

[skiingfiddler]

That's quite a problem, having to choose between comfort and playability. 

 

So the best solution would be to  make the playable bow more comfortable without detracting from the value of the bow.  Here are a couple of suggestions:

 

1. Change your bow grip slightly, moving your hand and your thumb up the stick about 2 to 3 mm so that the thumb isn't pressing into the gap between the leather thumb grip and frog.  After this change, the majority of the thumb will be resting on the leather thumb grip with the left side of the thumb just barely touching the frog but exerting no pressure against the frog.  That's the grip I use.  I used to use the same grip you now have, and moved it up the 2 or 3 or so mm onto the leather thumb grip and found it not only more comfortable but offered me more control.    But I don't play professionally, and I realize that the bow grip you use is probably more common than what I'm advocating, but I think this pressing the thumb back against the frog gets overdone and creates considerable tension in the right hand without offering more control or power to the stroke.

 

2. Keep the bow grip you have, but find some kind of fairly thin, snug, removable rubber sleeve to slip over the end of the frog.  That sleeve can extend all the way to the leather thumb grip or not, depending on whatever is comfortable, but it would blunt the point on the frog.

 

The destructive option:

If this is a fairly inexpensive bow, say, less than $700, and you want to retain your present bow grip, you might consider having the point on the frog rounded.

 

Playing with pain is not an option.

 

If the French bow is an expensive bow, then replacing the frog with a more comfortable one might be the way to go.  You retain the original frog for the future in the event you want to sell the bow.  But a well fitting frog of the proper weight can be expensive in itself.  You would want to make sure that the frog maker/fitter understands that the stick must not be adjusted for the new frog, but the other way around; the new frog is adjusted for the intact stick so that in the future the old frog can be put back on and it's still the original fit.

[Florian Schneidt]

If it's a living maker, I would suggest contacting that person and asking for advice or have him doing a light modification to make the frog a bit more comfortable. I hate too sharp edges there as well and I don't like rubbers, so in my own making I go for rounded, even if it spoils the style.

If it's an older bow put a rubber on. If it's a fairly cheap bow have a bowmaker (or a competent luthier) do a little softening of the edge... By fairly cheap I mean really cheap...

[Lenegrev]

Is the French bow contemporary?

Yes. It's a workshop bow.

[CCM]

Yes. It's a workshop bow.

By all means "Sand down the pointy part."

[Lenegrev]

 

 

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

1. Change your bow grip slightly, moving your hand and your thumb up the stick about 2 to 3 mm so that the thumb isn't pressing into the gap between the leather thumb grip and frog.  After this change, the majority of the thumb will be resting on the leather thumb grip with the left side of the thumb just barely touching the frog but exerting no pressure against the frog.  That's the grip I use.  I used to use the same grip you now have, and moved it up the 2 or 3 or so mm onto the leather thumb grip and found it not only more comfortable but offered me more control.    But I don't play professionally, and I realize that the bow grip you use is probably more common than what I'm advocating, but I think this pressing the thumb back against the frog gets overdone and creates considerable tension in the right hand without offering more control or power to the stroke.

 

The thought of changing my grip did come to mind but it just does not seem right to modify the grip to accomodate an unsuitable bow. I feel that changing the bow hold should be done only in the interest of better technique and sound. I certainly do not mind experimenting with different grips for the right reasons.

 

2. Keep the bow grip you have, but find some kind of fairly thin, snug, removable rubber sleeve to slip over the end of the frog.  That sleeve can extend all the way to the leather thumb grip or not, depending on whatever is comfortable, but it would blunt the point on the frog.

 

That's the other solution I have come across.

 

 

The destructive option:

 

If this is a fairly inexpensive bow, say, less than $700, and you want to retain your present bow grip, you might consider having the point on the frog rounded.

 

 

 

The longer I think about it, the less I am inclined towards surgery.

 

Playing with pain is not an option.

 

I am in complete agreement. Not for all the Strads in the world would I be persuaded to endure playing in pain.

 

Thanks for helping me clarify my options.

[Lenegrev]

If it's a living maker, I would suggest contacting that person and asking for advice or have him doing a light modification to make the frog a bit more comfortable. I hate too sharp edges there as well and I don't like rubbers, so in my own making I go for rounded, even if it spoils the style.

If it's an older bow put a rubber on. If it's a fairly cheap bow have a bowmaker (or a competent luthier) do a little softening of the edge... By fairly cheap I mean really cheap...

 

Functionality over style! I like that. It's a moderately expensive workshop bow so I'm moving away from putting it to the lathe. Thanks!