Who is Marco Alberti?

[GoldenPlate]

Anyone know anything about this maker?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-Antique-Italian-Violin-Superb-condition-Ready-to-Play-No-Reserve-/331036478563?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d134fcc63

 

I cannot seem to find any info about him...

Is this even an Italian violin at all..?

[Bernie R]

The bridge looks nice to me, I don't know anything about bridges, is it a good one?

[jacobsaunders]

The vendor writes: “There is little known about Marco Alberti and my references do not have much to offer”, which is 100% more than my reference library does. Brinser (& Henley) lists an Adalberto Alberti, working in Pavia between 1912 and 1935, but gives him no “stars” in his rating system, which generally indicates a self-taught amateuer. Neither does he refer to labels writen with a felt tip pen. There is no mention of any earlier “Marco” Alberti at all.

 

The body of the violin and the scroll seem a strange mixture. The body could well be a white “Schachtel” bought from the Markneukirchen trade and finished off with blotchy retouching varnish elsewhere, which would explain the decent arching, f holes etc, but scruffy edgework. The lumpy scroll by contrast looks like someone who might have known better, had carved it with a knife and fork, although the Markneukirchen dealers would surely have sold him a scroll blank, had he asked.

 

I’m not terribly well known for praising Ebay, but one advantage that it definatly has is that, in the old days, I used to regularly have to look through car boot (US Trunk) fulls of this rubbish, and don’t have to any more, because it is all “on-line”

 

[GoldenPlate]

If you read the description carefully, you will realize the seller never states that it's made by Marco Alberti. In fact, in the "maker" category, it says it's "Probably Marco Alberti". 

[victordriver]

 

The vendor writes: “There is little known about Marco Alberti and my references do not have much to offer”, which is 100% more than my reference library does. Brinser (& Henley) lists an Adalberto Alberti, working in Pavia between 1912 and 1935, but gives him no “stars” in his rating system, which generally indicates a self-taught amateuer. Neither does he refer to labels writen with a felt tip pen. There is no mention of any earlier “Marco” Alberti at all.

 

The body of the violin and the scroll seem a strange mixture. The body could well be a white “Schachtel” bought from the Markneukirchen trade and finished off with blotchy retouching varnish elsewhere, which would explain the decent arching, f holes etc, but scruffy edgework. The lumpy scroll by contrast looks like someone who might have known better, had carved it with a knife and fork, although the Markneukirchen dealers would surely have sold him a scroll blank, had he asked.

 

I’m not terribly well known for praising Ebay, but one advantage that it definatly has is that, in the old days, I used to regularly have to look through car boot (US Trunk) fulls of this rubbish, and don’t have to any more, because it is all “on-line”

 

Praise indeed. I will add that the label could be called original as no one else has ever used it. But apart from that....

[Blank face]

I would not be surprised, if the violin was 100 years younger (or more) as the label indicates.

Or the usual "strip, compose and revarnish" work from Hungary.

No proof, but the stained varnish, the corrugated table surface, the exaggerated bushing, the brute button.....very strange.

[bcncello]

If you read the description carefully, you will realize the seller never states that it's made by Marco Alberti. In fact, in the "maker" category, it says it's "Probably Marco Alberti". 

 

Caspace, in any case that price comes by means of the label only

[krid]

WOW already 5000 $ and 6 days left

[victordriver]

The seller has just got lucky that a few new people to EBay have become interested.......

[hendrik]

That label looks like it was scribbled yesterday on the back of an envelope. I have never ever seen this kind of handwriting produced in the late 19th century.

[Violadamore]

While I have no interest in either pointless Pahdah bashing, nor in ascertaining which orifice of the luthier's art that this particular violin emerged from, I feel that this may be the appropriate place for a short vent on the subject of "Italians", since we seem to spend quite a bit of time and effort on them..

 

IMHO, Italy is a sizable country by European standards, not all of a piece, and the luthiers there are as mixed a bag as those found anywhere else in the "Western World".  The production there today, as it has always been, is mostly no better than anywhere else, signed and dated or not.  A large number of date labeled Italian violins of the most humble origins may be found in the USA today because, as noted in a previous thread, post WW II a businessman here specialized in buying cheap Italian violins and importing them.   Using Italian origin to automatically imply a more valuable and better quality violin is as logically valid as equating every Fiat ("Fix It Again, Tony") with a Ferrari and pricing them accordingly.  In my view, the darned things aren't worth meddling with. One reason is the difficulty of authentication because they often lack any distinctive characteristics. another is that they probably, when compared to German, French, or American antique and vintage, are not that good a bargain from a playing point of view.  The instant that some clot coos "Italian", the price usually goes ballistic.  The only great selling point that I see about them is the questionable bragging right of having an Italian violin.

[Bernie R]

That label looks like it was scribbled yesterday on the back of an envelope. I have never ever seen this kind of handwriting produced in the late 19th century.

 

Neither have I, but then I've never looked. Have you? Are you an expert on late 19th century handwriting?

[jacobsaunders]

While I have no interest in either pointless Pahdah bashing,

 

 

 

It is neither pointless, nor bashing! 

[CCM]

There is nothing antique about this fiddle and it's fake label.  It's easy to get the antiqued "corduroy" top with use of water and sanding prior to varnishing and then a carefully applied stain.  It looks like a B grade violin from a very well-known maker in Beijing to me.

[vathek]

the label could have been a much later addition by someone who, for whatever reason, built that instrument or even decided just to make up a name.  I agree that the hand writing does not look stylistically correct for that date and the evenness of the ink flow is too consistent for dip pen or fountain pen.

[hendrik]

Neither have I, but then I've never looked. Have you? Are you an expert on late 19th century handwriting?

 

No I am not an expert on 19th century handwriting, but have payed close attention to styles of handwriting for a long time. 

You can find scribbled and hasty writing from any period but this style of scribbling is recent.

Vathek points out the obvious as well as far as the kind of pen being used.

[Terrini]

I guess the fair point is that the seller has put enough warning about the violin's identity on the post.

[Violadamore]

It is neither pointless, nor bashing! 

Critical threads linked to Pahdah's offerings seem to appear more regularly than those aimed at other sellers possibly more deserving of our critical attention.  Pointless in that Pahdah could probably care less most of the time, and as has been noted long since, his offerings are, by eBay standards, not objectionable.  I get much more exercised over the "reputable" shops who offer their refuse as "fine" and "rare" on eBay.

[Bernie R]

Pointless in that Pahdah could probably care less most of the time,

 

Where does that come from: "could care less", when you obviously mean "couldn't"?

[Violadamore]

Where does that come from: "could care less", when you obviously mean "couldn't"?

Local idiom, sugar.    Oh, for those few who care, I had to wait while a gator decided to finish crossing the road into town yesterday.  they would make a serious speed bump even for a Dodge pickup, and could care less about horns honking at them .

[bcncello]

 

That label looks like it was scribbled yesterday on the back of an envelope. I have never ever seen this kind of handwriting produced in the late 19th century.

 

 

Neither have I, but then I've never looked. Have you? Are you an expert on late 19th century handwriting?

 

Oh, come on.

[Blank face]

(anybody's) offerings are, by eBay standards, not objectionable.  I get much more exercised over the "reputable" shops who offer their refuse as "fine" and "rare" on eBay.

 

Errrhmmm....are you supposing, that "EBay standards" are fantasy or fairy tale or " I wish, it would be so, and therefore it is"?

That would be insulting for others, who don't act this way.

Never mind the OP violin, or if a particular seller is bashed more than others, but even an EBay standard should be a minimum of reliability.

[Violadamore]

Errrhmmm....are you supposing, that "EBay standards" are fantasy or fairy tale or " I wish, it would be so, and therefore it is"?

That would be insulting for others, who don't act this way.

Never mind the OP violin, or if a particular seller is bashed more than others, but even an EBay standard should be a minimum of reliability.

Nope, he meets that minimum standard, and usually exceeds it, so it has always surprised me that certain folks single him out.  Remember that he's technically a private seller, and my single annoyance with him is his use of often embarrassing unsupported purple prose, not that I feel that he's selling VSO's for top money while intentionally spoofing their provenance.  I save that suspicion for those firms who obviously know better, and cheat people anyway....

[vathek]

for those of you who could or couldn't care less: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-03-13/features/ct-tribu-words-work-care-less-20130313_1_care-harry-styles-idioms

[Blank face]

Nope, he meets that minimum standard, and usually exceeds it, so it has always surprised me that certain folks single him out.  Remember that he's technically a private seller, and my single annoyance with him is his use of often embarrassing unsupported purple prose, not that I feel that he's selling VSO's for top money while intentionally spoofing their provenance.  I save that suspicion for those firms who obviously know better, and cheat people anyway....

I remember, that there is an EBay policy rule, which says, you are not allowed to sell an item as something, you are not sure of...

You are implying, that P_H doesn't know, if his violins are that, as which he is describing them in "purple prose", but it doesn't matter, 'cause he is private.

That's not a compliment , but if somebody has sold more than1 300 violins, can we call him "private seller" furthermore?

But I was aiming at your low understanding of EBay standards, even a really private seller should take care, if he's on the right side with his descriptions.